Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

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Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby leehenshall » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:55 am

leehenshall Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:55 am
A while back I was excited to see that some development time had been spent on improving the rounded corners implementation in Octane. Unfortunately I still find it very limited and therefore still do not use it on any of my CAD/Automotive models. It's the same issue where mesh topology seems to effect the result of the rounded corners effect.

A few months back I found my self playing around with Blender and Cycles, curious to see how it had developed since I last used it. I noticed a very nice new feature within cycles called the Bevel Shader. When I tried it on some of my models I was amazed at how well it worked. It feels on par with V-Rays patented Rounded Corners in terms of quality. I did read that it may not be particularly render efficient but I didn't notice any major slowdowns when testing it and thought it worth mentioning.

Perhaps the experts at Otoy could look into this technology/technique? Perhaps it might be possible to use this technique in Octane?

Here are the development notes from Blenders feature request/dev:

https://developer.blender.org/D2803

"The algorithm averages normals from nearby surfaces. It uses the same
sampling strategy as BSSRDFs, casting rays along the normal and two
orthogonal axes, and combining the samples with MIS. Needs some code
cleanup still to untangle it from the BSSRDF code.

The main concern here is that we are introducing raytracing inside
shader evaluation, which could be quite bad for GPU performance and
stack memory usage. A similar issue exists if we want to add an AO
node that can output values instead of closures.

For CUDA with a GTX 1080, stack memory usage goes from 23408 to 24560
bytes, and render time on benchmark scenes seems unchanged. For AMD
OpenCL I did not test yet. Adaptive compilation there means it does not
affect scenes not using the bevel shader, but it's still a concern if
one small object with a bevel shader slows down an entire scene.

Moving the ray tracing outside of the shader evaluation is difficult,
that would make linking parameters or having multiple nodes with
different parameters impossible, since splitting up shader evaluation
into multiple kernels seems impractical."


Bevel None

bevel_none.png


Bevel Radius 0.1 - Samples 4

bevel_radius0.1_samples4.png


Bevel Radius 0.1 - Samples 16

bevel_radius0.1_samples16.png


Bevel Radius 0.25 - Samples 4

bevel_radius0.25_samples4.png


Bevel Radius 0.25 - Samples 16

bevel_radius0.25_samples16.png


I'm sure there would be many grateful users if this were able to find its way into Octane :)

Cheers

Lee
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby renderingz » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:20 am

renderingz Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:20 am
People have been asking for this for years so I wouldn't hold your breath. Redshift licenses the tech from Nvidia.
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby leehenshall » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:27 pm

leehenshall Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:27 pm
Yeah I know :( It's a real shame as it is a real weak point in Octane. I've not seen it done in this way before though and given that it's a Blender shader and you can see the code, it may be possible for Otoy to make something with it.

I don't know whether there are any license restrictions on the code but I'd assume not given the open nature of Blender development but I could be wrong.
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby bepeg4d » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:16 pm

bepeg4d Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:16 pm
Hi leehenshall,
please, have a look at this other discussion:
viewtopic.php?p=298729#p298729
ciao beppe
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby leehenshall » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:20 pm

leehenshall Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:20 pm
Thanks for the link beppe,

I was eagerly reading these threads back when they were active. I tried the development builds as well as the subsequent stable builds but I couldn't really notice much improvement in my tests. I know mojave put a lot of time into this and was providing regular updates for a while. I'm not really sure where it went after the 3.05 builds. I guess it was put back on the shelf?

Correct me if I'm wrong but this feature is still pretty unfinished/broken in most cases? I can't get nice results with it with some fairly regular automotive parts unfortunately. I don't know much about the technical process behind developing features for a render engine but I'm guessing the technique employed for doing rounded corners in Octane is slightly flawed somehow? It seems to be a bit of a problem for Otoy however you look at it.

I posted about this Blender technique hoping that Otoy might take a renewed interest and potentially build something similar as this appears to be a different way of achieving this effect (again can't be certain of this but it looks cool). I have a lot of respect for the devs of Octane and continue to be impressed with the progress Octane is making overall but I can't help but wonder why it is seemingly so hard to build this feature.....From my humble end-user perspective I've watched the Blender community build this from scratch in next to no time and it works really well, almost as good as V-Rays...at least for me anyway :)
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby NVN » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:11 am

NVN Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:11 am
leehenshall wrote:Thanks for the link beppe,

I was eagerly reading these threads back when they were active. I tried the development builds as well as the subsequent stable builds but I couldn't really notice much improvement in my tests. I know mojave put a lot of time into this and was providing regular updates for a while. I'm not really sure where it went after the 3.05 builds. I guess it was put back on the shelf?

Correct me if I'm wrong but this feature is still pretty unfinished/broken in most cases? I can't get nice results with it with some fairly regular automotive parts unfortunately. I don't know much about the technical process behind developing features for a render engine but I'm guessing the technique employed for doing rounded corners in Octane is slightly flawed somehow? It seems to be a bit of a problem for Otoy however you look at it.

I posted about this Blender technique hoping that Otoy might take a renewed interest and potentially build something similar as this appears to be a different way of achieving this effect (again can't be certain of this but it looks cool). I have a lot of respect for the devs of Octane and continue to be impressed with the progress Octane is making overall but I can't help but wonder why it is seemingly so hard to build this feature.....From my humble end-user perspective I've watched the Blender community build this from scratch in next to no time and it works really well, almost as good as V-Rays...at least for me anyway :)


I think so too.
Its very sad that we get some feature which wont work well.....same as displacement and other things.
I love Octane but the feature- update- time is to long.....
Would be nicer if Otoy get more man power....
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby bepeg4d » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:05 am

bepeg4d Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:05 am
The displacement has been improved in 3.08 test phase, and the devs are still fine tuning it:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=64362#p327462
About rounded edges, there is a first implementation, and another method is in development, and will be added in 3.xx, when it will be ready.
Please, do you mind to share which other features are not working as you expecting?
It’s quite courious how all users are thinking that is super easy to add features here and there, obviously maintaining the same power, efficiency, and speed of rendering :roll:
ciao beppe
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby renderingz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 am

renderingz Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 am
If "all users" think this, then it's more likely a communication problem on your end, you have set the expectations too high by over promising and under delivering.

Redshift put out an entire c4d plugin from scratch with more features in less time that it's taken for us to go from v3-3.08.
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby bepeg4d » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:24 pm

bepeg4d Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:24 pm
Funny, 3.08 seemed impossible to have, but we have just delivered the "over promising" OSL integration, and other features.
Unfortunately if a feature is not in your personal list, it seems that the devs are not making their job.
How can you compare a plugin integration of a biased render, with the refactoring of a core GPU unbiased render engine, with new features never added before.
It seems that everyone wants the same features in all the render engines, but the engines are different, with different backgrond, story, and development.
OctaneRender is particulary different, and has its own peculiarities and roadmap to follow.
ciao beppe
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Re: Raytraced Rounded Corners? Cycles Bevel Shader

Postby NVN » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:07 am

NVN Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:07 am
bepeg4d wrote: it seems that the devs are not making their job
ciao beppe


i didn't say that.....
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