Hello,
I have a problem with color balance. I attached a sample c4d file and screenshots.
I could not get correct brand color under ACES workflow.
Could anyone help me about this please
Brand Color & Aces Issue
Moderators: aoktar, ChrisHekman
For those who can't download compressed files, uploading directly the images will be required.
Meanwhile:
The first question is: why ACES? Was ACES an absolute necessity? as in, required by a client or a company (i.e. studio)?
If not, then there is absolutely no obligation to use ACES. It's not replacing anything and merely is a side option.
It's nowhere close to the claimed "widely-adopted standard" and has pending, unaddressed core flaws breaking the imagery.
Octane has its own signal processing options that have been improved since then, in addition to a natively available AgX, a superior and much simpler solution ("plug and play", simply a "enable and done"). AgX can also be perceptually and virtually made identical to the ACES RRT ODT sRGB "look" using ASC-CDL, an often overlooked fact.
Not to mention that Octane does not require ACES "to look better" as it's a spectral renderer.
This is further explained here and here.
Meanwhile:
The first question is: why ACES? Was ACES an absolute necessity? as in, required by a client or a company (i.e. studio)?
If not, then there is absolutely no obligation to use ACES. It's not replacing anything and merely is a side option.
It's nowhere close to the claimed "widely-adopted standard" and has pending, unaddressed core flaws breaking the imagery.
Octane has its own signal processing options that have been improved since then, in addition to a natively available AgX, a superior and much simpler solution ("plug and play", simply a "enable and done"). AgX can also be perceptually and virtually made identical to the ACES RRT ODT sRGB "look" using ASC-CDL, an often overlooked fact.
Not to mention that Octane does not require ACES "to look better" as it's a spectral renderer.
This is further explained here and here.
Octane resources
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
Hi Skientia,
Thank you for your time.
No, it's just a habit I've developed over the past few years, and I tend to use it by default. My template workflows also start with it, that's all.
I will definitely check out your alternative suggestions today.
Thank you for your time.
No, it's just a habit I've developed over the past few years, and I tend to use it by default. My template workflows also start with it, that's all.
I will definitely check out your alternative suggestions today.
It's also worth to noting that ACES, in this case, can be applied late in the signal chain (akin to AgX), with further tweaks before such as "individual colors" e.g. red only.
In essence:
- In Octane, during render previews: simply the ACES checkbox, no "full ACES color pipeline" (à la AgX, textures are not "ACES converted")
- sRGB-Linear OpenEXR export to any compression flavor depending subjective preferences and requirements
- in post, ACES sRGB ODT and before that layer/node, subjective tweaks
However, AgX would be more suitable since it is far less prone to derailing the original intent as ACES design "shifts colors" (red turning orangy wouldn't please people at Coca Cola for instance).
In essence:
- In Octane, during render previews: simply the ACES checkbox, no "full ACES color pipeline" (à la AgX, textures are not "ACES converted")
- sRGB-Linear OpenEXR export to any compression flavor depending subjective preferences and requirements
- in post, ACES sRGB ODT and before that layer/node, subjective tweaks
However, AgX would be more suitable since it is far less prone to derailing the original intent as ACES design "shifts colors" (red turning orangy wouldn't please people at Coca Cola for instance).
Octane resources
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
Okay, thank you again.
"... "shifts colors" (red turning orangy wouldn't please people at Coca Cola for instance)."
yes, I just saw that orange in Silverwing's wonderful video https://youtu.be/rlLCDOt5iMA?si=DV_0C-E4mWc0ewvh
"... "shifts colors" (red turning orangy wouldn't please people at Coca Cola for instance)."
yes, I just saw that orange in Silverwing's wonderful video https://youtu.be/rlLCDOt5iMA?si=DV_0C-E4mWc0ewvh
This is the second day, and I tried using AgX as well, but I
couldn’t achieve the brand color in my renders.
This topic seems so complex for me, I guess. I went back to sRGB,
but everything became ugly. I’m trying to adapt the scene elements for
it, but it definitely looks worse. I wish I could solve this problem,
and if anyone has figured it out, I’d appreciate it if you could
share exactly how you did it.
couldn’t achieve the brand color in my renders.
This topic seems so complex for me, I guess. I went back to sRGB,
but everything became ugly. I’m trying to adapt the scene elements for
it, but it definitely looks worse. I wish I could solve this problem,
and if anyone has figured it out, I’d appreciate it if you could
share exactly how you did it.
Feel free to send a message with images (references and renders) or here as a reply.
Regardless of ACES or AgX, the "problems" faced can be easily resolved, in fact, some known issues can be resolved within Octane, others in post with specific know-how (knowledgable post post production professionals).
Regardless of ACES or AgX, the "problems" faced can be easily resolved, in fact, some known issues can be resolved within Octane, others in post with specific know-how (knowledgable post post production professionals).
Octane resources
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
In such cases, where "a brand" must "retain its branding visual guidelines" to this level, there are some possibilities, such as:
In the end, the input "color values" will be inevitably affected by lighting and the resulting shading rendition.
Fundamentally, in most situations it will be difficult if not near impossible to retain a "flat color swatch sample" like this due to two predominant elements: lighting and shading, which will result in "zones on an object" and image formation:
Figure 2.1. Glossy sphere (billiard ball) under a single direct light source, showing effects of specular and diffuse reflection. Photograph by David Briggs.
Figure 2.3. Diagrams of light zones on a sphere from two popular art instruction texts. Left from Loomis (1951), and right from Aristides (2007). Both works show the highlight (incorrectly) at the centre of the full light, facing the light source. As seems conventional in this sort of diagram, the diffuse reflection of light from the tabletop is shown but not the specular reflection, and a continuous band of core shadow is shown alongside the terminator. The actual appearance of a sphere in this lighting may be quite different (e.g. Figure 2.1).
Some thoughtful individuals may mention and suggest the "Khronos PBR Neutral" alternative but unfortunately, it is not a viable solution and should be avoided, the reasons... fall under Brandolini's Law.
- rendering with AOVs and isolating the "brand textures" (containing "this yellow") to isolate it from the signal chain. Results may appear "off" or "odd" but if the absolute goal is to retain the "brand color" then it will be achieved.
- adapting (converting) that input "color value" to ACES (or else), so they match 1:1 under the DifF AOV ("Albedo")
- When it comes to ACES itself in the "graphic elements context", there is the "inverted ODT technique", there should be forum threads about it on the ACES forum.
In the end, the input "color values" will be inevitably affected by lighting and the resulting shading rendition.
Fundamentally, in most situations it will be difficult if not near impossible to retain a "flat color swatch sample" like this due to two predominant elements: lighting and shading, which will result in "zones on an object" and image formation:
Figure 2.1. Glossy sphere (billiard ball) under a single direct light source, showing effects of specular and diffuse reflection. Photograph by David Briggs.
Figure 2.3. Diagrams of light zones on a sphere from two popular art instruction texts. Left from Loomis (1951), and right from Aristides (2007). Both works show the highlight (incorrectly) at the centre of the full light, facing the light source. As seems conventional in this sort of diagram, the diffuse reflection of light from the tabletop is shown but not the specular reflection, and a continuous band of core shadow is shown alongside the terminator. The actual appearance of a sphere in this lighting may be quite different (e.g. Figure 2.1).
Some thoughtful individuals may mention and suggest the "Khronos PBR Neutral" alternative but unfortunately, it is not a viable solution and should be avoided, the reasons... fall under Brandolini's Law.
Octane resources
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).
OCTANE POSTS (URLs have changed, which will break some links but all content remains available).