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Thanks for your fast answer Goldorak !

so to sum up :
renting plan for V4 and 2018.1 -> 20$/m pay annually you get
- all feature except last Vulkan RTX optim / NVLink
- full access to all DCC plugin
- full access to all maintenance (2018.1 , 2019 ... )
- network rendering
- max 20 GPU's
- you can't mix rent only and expert license

renting plan with 2019 and futur release -> 20$/m pay annually you get
- all feature including Vulkan RTX optim / NVLink
- full access to all DCC plugin
- full access to all maintenance (2018.1 , 2019 ... )
- network rendering
- max 1 GPU's
- you can't mix rent only and expert license

with the enterprise AA model with V4 and 2018.1 for (399$ octane + 219$ houdini dcc) + 20$ month (Enterprise All-Access)
- i get the exact same things
+ offline licensing
+ last Vulkan RTX optim / NVLink
+ unlimited GPU numbers

at 240$ per year it's a very attractive deal even with only 1 GPU allowed, but as things tend to be a little confused for now , i guess i 'll pass my turn for 2018.1 and see how things stabilize with 2019, before doing anything stupid.

i also think that licensing plans are really too messy and complex to understand and some simplification would help

For what would be cool imo for licensing :

octane indie :
- Price is 199$ per year with a rent only plan additional render slave is 99$ per year
- you get a full feature octane with RTX and NVLink
- all DCC / all maintenance is included
- Max GPU is 2 per machine even with 2019 and other release
- 3 users license Max per company
- 3 additional renderslave license Max for renderslave
- CA under 100.000$
(you can thus use 12 Graphic cards Max)

octane pro :
Price when you buy the license
- 399$ to buy a standalone/slave license
- 199$ to buy 1 DCC license that is universal you can switch which plugin you want to use in your admin panel, but you are alllowed to do this 1 time a week. To avoid people to switch license 5 times a days, but giving flexibility to those who have buy for ex a maya license but want to switch to c4d / blender / houdini at no extra cost without having a license that is now useless for them since they don't use maya anymore. It gives flexibility to reallocate your DCC license, but this license is still a 1 DCC app license in the spirit, and the one week restriction to reallocate it protect you from people switching 10 times a day.
- if you own 1 DCC plugin you can unlock a Full access license the initial buy is 199$ and it gives you access to all DCC plugin

Yearly Maintenance price
- 99$ for maintenance on standalone/slave per year
- 49$ for maintenance on 1 DCC license per year
- 49$ for maintenance on 1 Full access License per year
You can stop maintenance whenever you want but if you have pass more than 1 year without maintenance you had to pay an extra to go back under maintenance. for ex
- 149$ for standalone
- 75$ for 1DCC
- 75$ for AA acces

Cheers

With a 3 year plan we can better amortize support costs for a user owning (and continuing to use) versions beyond V4.

The reason we need to be thoughtful about how this works in future updates , is that there may be more online-only pieces coming in Octane that will not baked in to the engine but offered through new (and not free to run) cloud services replacing LiveDB with something better - which update 1st and 3rd party nodes, modules, shaders, and more. None of that is in 2018.1 now, but we will need to revisit how this works for RtO when we get closer to implementing this.

If that is the case why couldn't you offer your users this:

After your 1 year ALL ACCESS the user would be given the option to pay a minimal "fair and reasonable fee" to own their most up to date version.

For example someone pays $240/year and then at the end of the year for $50-$100 they get to keep the most up to date version

Depending on what year subscription the user chooses the minimal "fair and reasonable fee" to keep that existing version would be different

for example

1 year - minimal fee to keep existing version $50 - $100
2 year - minimal fee $25 - $50
3 year - included

Thanks,
Jason

Goldorak wrote:If you need more than 1 GPU and are counting on that when using 2019 (which will have RTX-Vulkan speed ups) instead of V4 next year, I’d consider the Enterprise bundle. Read the FAQ - we are initially limiting any subscription versions with RTX-Vulkan back to the old 1-2 GPU limits (exact number and details TBD once we have finished this work).

I bought the Black friday offer and feel TRICKED/CHEATED....
edit: v3/v4 lic owners also get the upgrade to: "Octane Render® Enterprise All-Access Annual Extension"(with RTX optimization and NVlink). But still, its strange that new customer don't get the RTX optimization on new GPUs (the Studio subscription).

RTX 2080 Ti are on the way and I'm planning to eventually have 4 in my new workstation.

BUT who in their right mind would by an "Octane All-Access" subscription and NOT get GPU optimization!

Highly disappointed about future versions (renting/selling/maintenance plans, this total chaos about new prices, v4 performance and so on), expecially because I remember different promises.

I know you don't care at all about me but, FYI, you've just lost a customer.

Congratulation.

johlanga wrote:

Goldorak wrote:If you need more than 1 GPU and are counting on that when using 2019 (which will have RTX-Vulkan speed ups) instead of V4 next year, I’d consider the Enterprise bundle. Read the FAQ - we are initially limiting any subscription versions with RTX-Vulkan back to the old 1-2 GPU limits (exact number and details TBD once we have finished this work).

I bought the Black friday offer and feel TRICKED/CHEATED....
RTX 2080 Ti are on the way and I'm planning to eventually have 4 in my new workstation.

BUT who in their right mind would by an "Octane All-Access" subscription and NOT get GPU optimization!

You can pay more and get it all as mentioned in the FAQ but subscriptions have typically been limited to 2 GPUs and we made an exception for V4. When we have future releases beyond V4 we’ll figure out the right balance, but as of now V4 is 25% faster on RTX than V3.08

MasterFo wrote:Highly disappointed about future versions (renting/selling/maintenance plans, this total chaos about new prices, v4 performance and so on), expecially because I remember different promises.

I know you don't care at all about me but, FYI, you've just lost a customer.

Congratulation.

Of course we care. We could have made V4 a paid upgrade and we didn’t, for the benefit of all users. We’be used feedback from the community to make two important changes and always welcome further feedback.

Goldorak wrote:

johlanga wrote:

Goldorak wrote:If you need more than 1 GPU and are counting on that when using 2019 (which will have RTX-Vulkan speed ups) instead of V4 next year, I’d consider the Enterprise bundle. Read the FAQ - we are initially limiting any subscription versions with RTX-Vulkan back to the old 1-2 GPU limits (exact number and details TBD once we have finished this work).

I bought the Black friday offer and feel TRICKED/CHEATED....
RTX 2080 Ti are on the way and I'm planning to eventually have 4 in my new workstation.

BUT who in their right mind would by an "Octane All-Access" subscription and NOT get GPU optimization!

You can pay more and get it all as mentioned in the FAQ but subscriptions have typically been limited to 2 GPUs and we made an exception for V4. When we have future releases beyond V4 we’ll figure out the right balance, but as of now V4 is 25% faster on RTX than V3.08

Are you saying that with the Octane All-Access subscription we are getting 2 GPUs optimization beyond v2018?

Very confusing indeed.
Turns out the Black Friday offer also includes an upgrade from v3/v4 standalone to "Octane Render® Enterprise All-Access Annual Extension" , with 20 GPUs, Vulkan RTX optimization and NVLink

I was told that i had to create a new subscription to get the Black Friday offer, and that subscription was the only option beyond v4.

johlanga wrote:Very confusing indeed.
Turns out the Black Friday offer also includes an upgrade from v3/v4 standalone to "Octane Render® Enterprise All-Access Annual Extension" , with 20 GPUs, Vulkan RTX optimization and NVLink

I was told that i had to create a new subscription to get the Black Friday offer, and that subscription was the only option beyond v4.

- if you bought Octane 3/4 and want to add the AA pass:

There is only one option on the shop page (under upgrades) that gives you Octane Render® Enterprise All-Access Annual Extension This covers future post V4 releases (and much more - like extra slave and plug-ins) for 1-3 years, and if you go for 3 years, you get to own the updated versions to your permanent licences (with limits, see the FAQ). Years 1-2 are 25% off through black Friday.

For subscription users - those who haven't bought Octane - the $20 /month option is still the only subscription option, but now can be paid a year in advance. For that year up front, you now get 25% off through black Friday ($14.99 monthly) and as the store page and FAQ explains, the annual rate (AA pass) includes access to multiple plug-ins, ORC and other extras. Note that the subs are priced so low that we have to ensure a real delta vs. Enterprise (purchased) versions, and that's why subs have been limited to 1-2 GPUs (varies by plug-in) until this launch. We made an exception with the 20 GPU max limit for V4 one time, but this is only for V4. Specifically the RTX -Vulkan backend is likely to be capped to a single GPU for $20/month.

I, as I suppose, many, have no plans to use all existing plugins for Octane - I only need one plug-in for my main program of modeling and animation. In this regard, it would be wise to introduce a differentiated subscription method - you can subscribe to AA, you can subscribe to only one plugin (or as many as you need, or only two options - one plugin or all plugins).
Or you pay for the upgrade of your boxed license, which includes only the update of the standalone program and the plugin.
I hope Otoy will take into account such needs.