OctaneRender 2 for Revit [STABLE]

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Autodesk Revit (Integrated Plugin developed by Paul Kinnane)

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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby andredms » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:14 am

andredms Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:14 am
Hi Paul,

face_off wrote:There are no texturemap limits in Octane 2.01, so no need to display them.


This is very good news indeed.

This is the first time this feature has been requested. At the moment you can copy and paste proxy info via the 'C' and 'P' buttons on the Material tab (if the selection is a copy). If you want this functionality expanded, pls provide a very clear and detailed description of what you want and I can look at how it can be implemented.


What we need is the proxy to behave just as materials - since you configure a material as default, every time this material renders as specified into the plugin. This way, every instance of a determined object (rfa) will be converted to the specified proxy into the plugin, no need to manual copy or substitution. If the need to another similar, but not equal proxy conversion arises, a new "type" is created inside the Revit (or other bim), with all the info needed, including info about the proxy if needed too.

This is the most logical way to use a bim architecture. It's impossible to manually convert every one of 50.000 seats of a stadium, and the multiple copy isn't any better since the project is done inside the bim platform, not into the plugin. There are several bim automation tools not aware of what a rendering proxy is, or even that it exists.

Thank you.
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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby face_off » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:44 am

face_off Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:44 am
This is the most logical way to use a bim architecture. It's impossible to manually convert every one of 50.000 seats of a stadium, and the multiple copy isn't any better since the project is done inside the bim platform, not into the plugin. There are several bim automation tools not aware of what a rendering proxy is, or even that it exists.
If the 50,000 seats to the stadium are a family, aren't they being rendered already by the plugin (if they do NOT have a proxy assigned)?

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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby prehabitat » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 am

prehabitat Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 am
face_off wrote:
This is the most logical way to use a bim architecture. It's impossible to manually convert every one of 50.000 seats of a stadium, and the multiple copy isn't any better since the project is done inside the bim platform, not into the plugin. There are several bim automation tools not aware of what a rendering proxy is, or even that it exists.
If the 50,000 seats to the stadium are a family, aren't they being rendered already by the plugin (if they do NOT have a proxy assigned)?

Paul


What about a repeating custom chair in a concert hall,
or perhaps more realistically: repeating custom acoustic panelling or façade elements - too complex to use within the Revit model when a family of 2D Linework and some basic 3D placeholder Geom will suffice..

There are quite a few situations (especially with custom, yet very complex items) might be modelled outside of Revit(for easy of translation to G-Code for example), and documented using very basic representational geometry only within Revit for Contract Admin purposes...

I don't have a clear idea of a potential solution: but I have encountered a few times where we ask our clients to pay significant money for a built, designed element(often joinery or some 3D printed/cut part), which we first show them in visualisations to cement their resolve. Often due to modelling, hardware or software (model size) limitations these are modelled outside of Revit.
Non-instance proxy (something with a 1-to-many relationship with the Revit Family) does seem like a relevant feature.
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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby face_off » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:09 pm

face_off Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:09 pm
I have had a look at the proxy functionality you want. The intent of the current version of the plugin is that it renders the family object geometry, and if you need to add decorations such as plants, trees, etc, then you can assign proxy geometry to a family item. The proxy system is NOT intended to allows build structure geometry to be rendered via proxy, since then the rendered output would differ from the geometry in the Revit scene. If you need a specific seat in a stadium, then you should use the family object for that particular seat. The current proxy system is not intended replace the Revit family system.

The enhancement you are asking for is quite a substantial change, and quite complex to implement. There would need to be a mechanism that if you select a family item in the scene which has a default proxy OBJ file, then the "Selection" button would display something like "Default Proxy" and would not allow you to change the proxy parameters. If it does not have a default proxy file, there would need to be another button the "Create Default Proxy" - which would attach that OBJ specified in the proxy screen to that family item. But this will require many changes to the code that loads the Revit scene into Octane, and there will be complexities linking the family object to the OBJ file. And what happens if you copy that rvt file onto another PC which does not contain that default OBJ file? And how are you going to ensure all copies of Revit in your organisation are accessing the same set of "Default" links between familty objects and proxy OBJ files?

So in summary, this looks like a lot of work for something which is already provided for by Revit via the existing family system.

But happy to continue discussing...

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby Seekerfinder » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:43 pm

Seekerfinder Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:43 pm
face_off wrote:I have had a look at the proxy functionality you want. The intent of the current version of the plugin is that it renders the family object geometry, and if you need to add decorations such as plants, trees, etc, then you can assign proxy geometry to a family item. The proxy system is NOT intended to allows build structure geometry to be rendered via proxy, since then the rendered output would differ from the geometry in the Revit scene. If you need a specific seat in a stadium, then you should use the family object for that particular seat. The current proxy system is not intended replace the Revit family system.

The enhancement you are asking for is quite a substantial change, and quite complex to implement. There would need to be a mechanism that if you select a family item in the scene which has a default proxy OBJ file, then the "Selection" button would display something like "Default Proxy" and would not allow you to change the proxy parameters. If it does not have a default proxy file, there would need to be another button the "Create Default Proxy" - which would attach that OBJ specified in the proxy screen to that family item. But this will require many changes to the code that loads the Revit scene into Octane, and there will be complexities linking the family object to the OBJ file. And what happens if you copy that rvt file onto another PC which does not contain that default OBJ file? And how are you going to ensure all copies of Revit in your organisation are accessing the same set of "Default" links between familty objects and proxy OBJ files?

So in summary, this looks like a lot of work for something which is already provided for by Revit via the existing family system.

But happy to continue discussing...

Paul


Hi Paul,
I see where the guys are coming from on this but I also see your point with the intent of that function. If a proxy-family association is too much of a mission, what about an option that allows us to apply a proxy to more than one identical family element selected? Revit has a 'select similar in view/project' function which is very useful. Is that a possibility?

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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby andredms » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:27 pm

andredms Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:27 pm
face_off wrote:So in summary, this looks like a lot of work for something which is already provided for by Revit via the existing family system.

But happy to continue discussing...

Paul


Hello Paul,

This is a must have feature to enable the use of Octane with Revit. The complexity or portability is not a issue, since no matter if you have a single proxy conversion or thousands, you will need coherent bim organization and infrastructure to handle it. On contrary of what you said, there are lots of benefits of using proxy this way inside Revit, either considering file-size or complexity of the Revit project file - one example are large and detailed models, that have no need to be complete families to enable correct bim usage - like vegetation, landscaping and several other uses. I do not need to have a lot of heavyweight rfa objects inside the projects just to render into Octane. In no way I suggested replacing the family usage into Revit, and seems that you do not understood what I said last time. This seems to be a very simple implementation, just like what happens with the materials inside the plugin.

The current way to implement proxy conversion is messing with every bim project that uses Octane to visualization.
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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby andredms » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm

andredms Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 pm
Seekerfinder wrote:I see where the guys are coming from on this but I also see your point with the intent of that function. If a proxy-family association is too much of a mission, what about an option that allows us to apply a proxy to more than one identical family element selected? Revit has a 'select similar in view/project' function which is very useful. Is that a possibility?


This is exactly what I was asking first time, some posts ago. This is a way to do it, but is not streamlined - in the bim environment, this redundancy of be able to have several different objects that are in no way represented into the project is a source of trouble, both with a single user or on a team work.
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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby face_off » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:54 pm

face_off Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:54 pm
This is a must have feature to enable the use of Octane with Revit.
I think it's a "must have" feature for "you". But this is the first time it's come up as a requirement of the plugin, and I'm sure you will understand that it is incredibly hard to customize the plugin to suit the requirements of one user. And as indicated above, the scope of the plugin is to provide photoreal renderings from Revit geometry - it's is not meant to solve deficiencies in Revit itself. I'm happy to enhance the proxy system - but the requirements you have outlined are too complex to be able to be implemented within a reasonable amount of effort.

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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby andredms » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:53 am

andredms Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:53 am
face_off wrote:I think it's a "must have" feature for "you". But this is the first time it's come up as a requirement of the plugin, and I'm sure you will understand that it is incredibly hard to customize the plugin to suit the requirements of one user. And as indicated above, the scope of the plugin is to provide photoreal renderings from Revit geometry - it's is not meant to solve deficiencies in Revit itself. I'm happy to enhance the proxy system - but the requirements you have outlined are too complex to be able to be implemented within a reasonable amount of effort.

Paul


Hello Paul,

I'm not just a LEED architect, I worked 20 years as an engineer for Sun Microsystems systems, and yes, I done a lot of coding myself. This is a trivial thing to implement, I'm sure. Your argument of "incredible hard to customize", I just cannot understand - can you elaborate on it?

This have nothing to do with any Revit deficiencies - the single Revit "deficiency" that we are talking about is why I bought and try to use the Octane - to do the renderings. The implementation of the proxy capability to do the renderings is the reason why I choose to try the Octane, but it's plugin proxy implementation is plain wrong.

So, to use this plugin, I have to do thousands of manual, old style proxy substitutions, one by one, because you cannot implement a half line of code? Sorry, this is not reasonable. I'm trying to show to you that, without some adjustments, this plugin will never be of use to serious architectural companies.

If this correction cannot be done, I will try to contact the Otoy to get my money back and use a more professional solution as the Maxwell or others. I like I lot the Octane approach, but sorry - I cannot understand your reasons to do it this way.

Regards.
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Re: OctaneRender for Revit Beta 2.01 [TEST]

Postby prehabitat » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:35 am

prehabitat Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:35 am
I remember there was a post linking to an article about a large U.S. based architectural practice who was using Octane (both Revit and standalone) for all their visualisation needs throughout design development, etc. EDIT: I think it was a few pages into the Octane 2.x announcement thread... I'll check...

If we need critical mass of user base supporting/endorsing a feature like this perhaps it would be pertinent to contact them (Paul K) and see if the feature would be of comparable value to those of us who've mentioned it here...

EDIT2: Found it:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40378&start=120#p189436
or direct: http://www.bdcnetwork.com/hyper-speed-r ... ts-seconds
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