Change request - scatter proxies Tweet

[ArchPrime]

Hi, can we please have a tickbox that would allow ArchiCAD scatter proxies to control the location/origin of the scatter?

Currently if I have a field of grass and trees etc, generated via a scatters but later want to simply move this 30 meters to the left (eg to follow a change in project origin requested by an engineer, or reflect a change in proposed ground level with respect to floor level of a house), this is currently not possible - I would have to go back and redefine all the scatters from scratch, possibly months or years after forgetting how they were originally defined .

If regenerating for a new origin, maintaining visual continuity of the scatter is impossible to achieve with respect to previous scatters (at least without editing the scatter file directly with some gnarly macro in Excel - hardly intuitive or efficient workflow!), as all the elements get re-re-randomised each time.
Often, if I want to show a client 3 versions of a design (or in the case of a current project, 14 versions!), I want the key changes only to be visible. Visible changes to trees between building versions are a distraction.

Having a scatter proxy dialog with tick box options for 'scatter coordinates absolute' or 'scatter coordinates relative' to the GDL object origin would avoid some heartache

Certainly having a scatter follow a proxy origin when the object gets moved around is what one intuitively expects, given that this is the behaviour of normal proxies. (took me hours to finally twig )

[face_off]

This may be possible. I will investigate.

Paul

[ArchPrime]

This may be possible. I will investigate.

Paul

Great!

It occurs to me that this would open the door to lots more fun with scatters within the tool - eg. I could tilt the proxy object 90 degrees to generate a green wall on a building...
Conceivably, if a way can be found to copy proxy objects around complete with associated scatters, additional methods for graphically populating scenes by /overlaying, mirroring etc copies of scatters would emerge - for example a few shaggy rugs or a lawn. forest with artistic clumping of vegetaton etc. This would allow quick levels of detail - a background general scatter with overlaid more detailed scatter copies in the foreground etc

Could we even allow rescaling of proxy objects to rescale the density of the scatter in each dimension stretched?

3rd party tool Phantom scatter is more powerful, but is not really targeted for fluid graphical feedback like this in an ArchiCAD editing environment , where the project is typically constantly evolving at the point in project cycle where renderings are being done.

[rappet]

Way to go Archprime... I dig everything you are saying.

Would be great and very usefull enhancement.
And indeed, despite Phantomscatter, this scattertool stays very usefull and handy,
and it is nice to have a choice in workflow for scattering.
And I guess there are a lot of ArchiCAD users that will not have third party scattertools and depend on this feature.

Looking forward to this future/feature
Cheers,

Added/edited:
I am encounting this a lot:
After having placed a proxy,
let's say a chair in a room for interiror viz, or a tree in exteriro viz,
Then I want to tweak the chair/tree position and/or rotation. Now the rotation is easily done in the settings by changing rotation. But for the position I have to move the proxy, and reload the total scene...
It would be great with an offset box, to be able and adjust the position relative to the origin of the proxy.
Maybe also with tickbox on/off.

[face_off]

The current TEST release (3.3.3.66) has some of the functionality requested by ArchPrime. It's great to read "visionary" goals for the plugin functionality, however I am concerned that it is getting a long way from the core plugin functionality, and ArchiCAD is not a particularly appropriate host for these types of features. You may be much best exporting from ArchiCAD to a 3d modelling app, which will give the the features you are looking for.

Paul

[ArchPrime]

The current TEST release (3.3.3.66) has some of the functionality requested by ArchPrime. It's great to read "visionary" goals for the plugin functionality, however I am concerned that it is getting a long way from the core plugin functionality, and ArchiCAD is not a particularly appropriate host for these types of features. You may be much best exporting from ArchiCAD to a 3d modelling app, which will give the the features you are looking for.

Paul

Hi Paul - without commenting on Rappets specific suggestion, I would disagree re: exporting to other apps as being the appropriate way to achieve any commonly desired visualisation features.

Such a requirement would mostly serve to ensure the desired feature remains inaccessible for most ArchiCAD (and Revit) users.

ArchiCAD users are usually not full time visualisers, but purchase the plugin to extend visualization functionality within the BIM editing environment they are familiar with and best in, precisely to avoid the need to use 3rd party applications.

A requirement to become familiar with other application environments anyway thus largely defeats the purpose of having a plugin at all.

Exporting to other apps each time also cripples the iterative single model evolution workflow that is critical to BIM. - Visualisation forms part of the feedback loop in the design evolution process and the model needs to remain live and evolving right up until the building is physically built. Imagery can be required at any stage to show the impact of proposed changes etc - and the ability to spontaneously fly around the model with the client watching , and to see the impact of their proposed change rendered in real time (in a way that remains faithful to any still renders that may have already seen- i.e. with the proxies and scatters and other visualisation metadata etc all contained or at least manipulated within the common BIM model) is what sells the plugin to BIM users.

To me the scope of 'core' plugin functionality for any BIM application should include most if not all things that architectural visualisation requires, in order to eliminate the need for 3rd party applications