OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [OBSOLETE]

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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby petermax » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:09 pm

petermax Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:09 pm
Re animation the single biggest issue is updating the geometry, say you're doing a test the actual render takes only a few secs to get a simple preview, but the geom update takes 30 secs that means what should only take half an hour now takes you 5-6 hours, for a simple test animation render!!!... and there's little you can do with a decent amount of geometry that changes!

Is there anything in the works to alliterative this major problem, what about the fact that only one core is used during voxelization?
Last edited by petermax on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby face_off » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:48 pm

face_off Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:48 pm
Is there anything in the works to alliterative this major problem, what about the fact that only one core is used during the voxelization?

There are 2 elements to this....1 is the amount of time that Poser takes to package the scene and submit it to the Octane API. The second is the voxelization time (that happen after the API receives the scene data).

For the former, if you uncheck "Refresh Geometry Each Frame", it doesn't need to reload the scene, so should be very quick. If this is checked, between frames, the plugin only updates the vertex positions in Octane, not the polygons, etc, so it should be quicker than a complete scene refresh. But as Zay found out, sometimes a complete scene refresh is faster. Test this on your scene - update all vertices (rightclick the "Auto Refresh" button) and time it, then time a complete scene refresh. Let me know the result! I'm looking at an option to do a complete scene refresh between frame rather than a vertex refresh in the next version.

For voxelization, I understand there are improvements in 1.1, however I suspect most of the time between frame is the plugin sending the data to the Octane API, rather than voxelization time.

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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby Ken1171 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:56 pm

Ken1171 Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:56 pm
I have been using the Poser Octane 1.02r plugin for a week now, and I have a few questions:

1. Is there a way to save the entire Octane-converted scene to disk? This is something I could do with the PoseLux plugin. It would help me to do 2 things: edit the scene in Octane StandAlone and also reload the scene later to render. I noticed Octane has its own file format, but the plugin doesn't export to that (or I couldn't figure out how).

2. How do I export ALL scene materials at once? In a scene with 20 objects, do I have to save materials separately for each 1-by-1? It takes me a long time to export all the materials this way, and then import them back later. In a way this question is related to the previous, since saving the entire scene would probably also save the materials.

3. What is the proper way to control specularity on a skin shader node?

4. Can Environment lighting model alone produce specular highlights on the scene? I know this won't work in Poser because HDRI is implemented as a diffuse-only light, so no specular component exists unless we add a specular light into the scene. How does this work here?

I would appreciate any help on these issues. ^___^
Thanks!
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby face_off » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:20 pm

face_off Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:20 pm
Hi Ken

1. Is there a way to save the entire Octane-converted scene to disk? This is something I could do with the PoseLux plugin. It would help me to do 2 things: edit the scene in Octane StandAlone and also reload the scene later to render. I noticed Octane has its own file format, but the plugin doesn't export to that (or I couldn't figure out how).

Saving to OCS is not currently supported, and not currently possible to implement in any of the plugins. What are you trying to do in Standalone that you cannot do in the plugin? The plugin should support all Standalone functions and renders at the same speed. Saving the Poser scene will save all Octane settings for that scene and they will reload when you reload the Poser scene (for rendering later).

2. How do I export ALL scene materials at once? In a scene with 20 objects, do I have to save materials separately for each 1-by-1? It takes me a long time to export all the materials this way, and then import them back later. In a way this question is related to the previous, since saving the entire scene would probably also save the materials.

You can save all materials back to the Poser Materials (saves the Octane nodes into the Poser Material) using the "Save all Materials for this Figure/Prop as Poser Materials". You can then save that figure or figure as a Poser MAT POSE for easy reload and reuse in another scene. And again, saving the Poser scene saves all the Octane materials in the pz3 file. You cannot "export" all materials at once, since exporting requires a filename to be entered for each material.

3. What is the proper way to control specularity on a skin shader node?

Do you mean the sss shader from my blog, or the default skin conversion shader from the plugin? If the later, to brighten the specular, increase the color in the "specular" pin color (it is a very dark, blue tinted color). To make skin more oily, reduce the roughness (to 0.2-0.3). For the blog shader, the previous step apply to the "material2" of the material mix - since that controls the specular reflections.

4. Can Environment lighting model alone produce specular highlights on the scene? I know this won't work in Poser because HDRI is implemented as a diffuse-only light, so no specular component exists unless we add a specular light into the scene. How does this work here?

Yes, the environment map will produce specular highlights. Using a HDR image will produce spectacular highlights!

Hope that helps.

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby face_off » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:22 pm

face_off Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:22 pm
Re animation the single biggest issue is updating the geometry, say you're doing a test the actual render takes only a few secs to get a simple preview, but the geom update takes 30 secs that means what should only take half an hour now takes you 5-6 hours, for a simple test animation render!!!... and there's little you can do with a decent amount of geometry that changes!

Peter, I have just added a new checkbox int he Animation Tab of the next release so you can choose to do a complete scene refresh rather than vertex position refresh between frames. For some scenes this will be faster.

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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby Ken1171 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:21 pm

Ken1171 Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:21 pm
Thanks for the quick reply, Paul! Let me clarify the questions below:

1. Is there a way to save the entire Octane-converted scene to disk? This is something I could do with the PoseLux plugin. It would help me to do 2 things: edit the scene in Octane StandAlone and also reload the scene later to render. I noticed Octane has its own file format, but the plugin doesn't export to that (or I couldn't figure out how).
Saving to OCS is not currently supported, and not currently possible to implement in any of the plugins. What are you trying to do in Standalone that you cannot do in the plugin? The plugin should support all Standalone functions and renders at the same speed. Saving the Poser scene will save all Octane settings for that scene and they will reload when you reload the Poser scene (for rendering later).


Alright, so Poser somehow "knows" the material node changes I did in the Octane plugin, and saves them whenever I save the Poser scene to PZ3? I noticed this didn't happen when I saved the PZ3 and later loaded it again, and changes I did in the hair specularity nodes in the plugin were all lost. Do I have to do things in a certain order? Also, are materials modified in the plugin lost if I didn't save the PZ3 *before* closing the plugin? Maybe that's what happened here.

The reason why I sometimes close the plugin is because it causes my video card's fan (EVGA GTX580 3GB) to accelerate just for being opened (no rendering going on). The video card heats up and becomes quite noisy, so I have to close the plugin just to silence it. Is there a way to avoid causing the video card to accelerate just because the plugin in opened? The fan goes from 28% to 50% whenever I start the plugin. Perhaps that could be avoided in the next update, if all possible?

2. How do I export ALL scene materials at once? In a scene with 20 objects, do I have to save materials separately for each 1-by-1? It takes me a long time to export all the materials this way, and then import them back later. In a way this question is related to the previous, since saving the entire scene would probably also save the materials.
You can save all materials back to the Poser Materials (saves the Octane nodes into the Poser Material) using the "Save all Materials for this Figure/Prop as Poser Materials". You can then save that figure or figure as a Poser MAT POSE for easy reload and reuse in another scene. And again, saving the Poser scene saves all the Octane materials in the pz3 file. You cannot "export" all materials at once, since exporting requires a filename to be entered for each material.


Does that mean that "Save all Materials for this Figure/Prop as Poser Materials" will change the actual materials in the current Poser scene, or would it create a MAT pose in the runtime? If the first, then do I have to manually do this for all materials if I want them to be saved with the PZ3? As you can see, I am not sure when (or if) the current scene materials are updated from the plugin.

3. What is the proper way to control specularity on a skin shader node?
Do you mean the sss shader from my blog, or the default skin conversion shader from the plugin? If the later, to brighten the specular, increase the color in the "specular" pin color (it is a very dark, blue tinted color). To make skin more oily, reduce the roughness (to 0.2-0.3). For the blog shader, the previous step apply to the "material2" of the material mix - since that controls the specular reflections.


I mean the converted materials imported from the current Poser scene into the plugin. I clean up all the skin materials in Poser so that I end up with only texture maps plugged to the diffuse, bump and specular nodes. I noticed the specular nodes are usually lost in the plugin conversion, becoming "color" nodes - which is not what I wanted because specularity becomes global to the surfaces instead of being controlled by the specular maps. What do I have to do to preserve the specular maps? I tried making their values higher than the diffuse, but they still get replaced by "color" nodes.

4. Can Environment lighting model alone produce specular highlights on the scene? I know this won't work in Poser because HDRI is implemented as a diffuse-only light, so no specular component exists unless we add a specular light into the scene. How does this work here?
Yes, the environment map will produce specular highlights. Using a HDR image will produce spectacular highlights!


Awesome! So this is now just a matter of figuring out how to get the poser materials with specular maps converted correctly as mentioned above. ^^
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby face_off » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:48 am

face_off Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:48 am
Alright, so Poser somehow "knows" the material node changes I did in the Octane plugin, and saves them whenever I save the Poser scene to PZ3? I noticed this didn't happen when I saved the PZ3 and later loaded it again, and changes I did in the hair specularity nodes in the plugin were all lost. Do I have to do things in a certain order? Also, are materials modified in the plugin lost if I didn't save the PZ3 *before* closing the plugin? Maybe that's what happened here.

File -> Save will save the Octane settings even when the OctaneRender Settings window is still open. How are you loading the pz3 file? File->Open or double clicking a pz3 file?

The reason why I sometimes close the plugin is because it causes my video card's fan (EVGA GTX580 3GB) to accelerate just for being opened (no rendering going on). The video card heats up and becomes quite noisy, so I have to close the plugin just to silence it. Is there a way to avoid causing the video card to accelerate just because the plugin in opened? The fan goes from 28% to 50% whenever I start the plugin. Perhaps that could be avoided in the next update, if all possible?

There was an issue with this after finishing rendering an Animation, but that was fixed in the last 1.02r release. Install GPU-Z (freebie from TechPowerUp) to determine if your card is actually rendering or not. Just opening the plugin (OctaneRender Setup window) will not start a render. GPU-Z should hopefully help identify what is happening - check the Sensors Tab - GPU Load and Fan Speed.

Does that mean that "Save all Materials for this Figure/Prop as Poser Materials" will change the actual materials in the current Poser scene, or would it create a MAT pose in the runtime? If the first, then do I have to manually do this for all materials if I want them to be saved with the PZ3? As you can see, I am not sure when (or if) the current scene materials are updated from the plugin.

After saving the Octane Node to the Poser Material, the Poser Material has a bunch of nodes added which the plugin can build an exact Octane node setup from at a later date. These nodes are not actually connected to anything in the Poser Material - it is just a very convenient way to store them. So you can then save the figure or prop, and the next time you load that figure/prop into a scene and run Octane, it will built the Octane material node network from the saved node in the Poser Material rather than converting the Poser Material from scratch.

I mean the converted materials imported from the current Poser scene into the plugin. I clean up all the skin materials in Poser so that I end up with only texture maps plugged to the diffuse, bump and specular nodes. I noticed the specular nodes are usually lost in the plugin conversion, becoming "color" nodes - which is not what I wanted because specularity becomes global to the surfaces instead of being controlled by the specular maps. What do I have to do to preserve the specular maps? I tried making their values higher than the diffuse, but they still get replaced by "color" nodes.

Any texture map connected to the Alt_Specular or Highlight Color should get converted to the specular pin of the glossy material. Test this by using the "Re-convert from Poser Material" to reconvert he Poser material if you have confirmed there is a texturemap connected. If it's not converting for you, pls post a screenshot of the Poser Material (from the Poser Material Room) in question and I'll have a look.
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby Ken1171 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:01 am

Ken1171 Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:01 am
File -> Save will save the Octane settings even when the OctaneRender Settings window is still open. How are you loading the pz3 file? File->Open or double clicking a pz3 file?


I open with File -> Open or using "Recent Files" menu from the File menu. I am aware that there is a bug when the PZ3 is double-clicked.

There was an issue with this after finishing rendering an Animation, but that was fixed in the last 1.02r release. Install GPU-Z (freebie from TechPowerUp) to determine if your card is actually rendering or not. Just opening the plugin (OctaneRender Setup window) will not start a render. GPU-Z should hopefully help identify what is happening - check the Sensors Tab - GPU Load and Fan Speed.


The video card's Core clock is accelerated from 50MHz to 900MHz when the plugin is running, and that's what is causing the all the noise. Shader and Memory clocks are also accelerated at their own speeds. When the plugin is closed, the video card's clock returns back to 50MHz, which makes the fans go quiet. This is not related to rendering, but instead that the video card's clocks all get accelerated from idle state whenever the plugin is running. The same seems to happen when Octane Stand Alone is running, so it might be related.

After saving the Octane Node to the Poser Material, the Poser Material has a bunch of nodes added which the plugin can build an exact Octane node setup from at a later date. These nodes are not actually connected to anything in the Poser Material - it is just a very convenient way to store them. So you can then save the figure or prop, and the next time you load that figure/prop into a scene and run Octane, it will built the Octane material node network from the saved node in the Poser Material rather than converting the Poser Material from scratch.


Yeah, I noticed the bunch of shader nodes piled on top of each other at the bottom of each material - that's where the Octane converted materials end up. I got it now. ^______^

Any texture map connected to the Alt_Specular or Highlight Color should get converted to the specular pin of the glossy material. Test this by using the "Re-convert from Poser Material" to reconvert he Poser material if you have confirmed there is a texturemap connected. If it's not converting for you, pls post a screenshot of the Poser Material (from the Poser Material Room) in question and I'll have a look.


Hmm, I wonder if by "highlight color" you actually meant "specular color"? If so, I have it connected to a specular map, but Octane pluging will not include it in the conversion, replacing it with a "color" node instead. Please see the screenshot. Am I doing something wrong? I tried reloading the material from Poser, but the specular maps are never used. I am currently using the "color" node in the plugin to control specularity, and skin ends up looking like plastic... -____-
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LostSpecMap.jpg
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby face_off » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:43 am

face_off Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:43 am
I open with File -> Open or using "Recent Files" menu from the File menu. I am aware that there is a bug when the PZ3 is double-clicked.

You are opening the file correctly. Can you pls start a new scene, load Andy, setup some Octane materials for Andy, save the scene, close Poser, re-open Poser, load the previously saved scene (which will should not have saved the Octane nodes if your problem is reproduceable) and send me the octaneplugin.log file (in the Poser temp folder). I will have a look.

The video card's Core clock is accelerated from 50MHz to 900MHz when the plugin is running, and that's what is causing the all the noise. Shader and Memory clocks are also accelerated at their own speeds. When the plugin is closed, the video card's clock returns back to 50MHz, which makes the fans go quiet. This is not related to rendering, but instead that the video card's clocks all get accelerated from idle state whenever the plugin is running. The same seems to happen when Octane Stand Alone is running, so it might be related.

Interesting - my Core Clock is permanently on 900Mhz. Maybe you have your card setup to somehow "sleep" when there is no Cuda activity. I doubt there is much I can do with the plugin to assist with this :-\

Hmm, I wonder if by "highlight color" you actually meant "specular color"? If so, I have it connected to a specular map, but Octane pluging will not include it in the conversion, replacing it with a "color" node instead. Please see the screenshot. Am I doing something wrong? I tried reloading the material from Poser, but the specular maps are never used. I am currently using the "color" node in the plugin to control specularity, and skin ends up looking like plastic... -____-

You are absolutely right - there is a problem with the transferring of the specular map for "skin" materials. I have 1.02s packaged and ready to go - I'll include the fix in that. I was waiting for Octane 1.1 to be included, but this issue warrants a more urgent release.

Paul
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Re: OctaneRender® for Poser beta - build 1.02r [TEST]

Postby face_off » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:34 am

face_off Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:34 am
You are absolutely right - there is a problem with the transferring of the specular map for "skin" materials. I have 1.02s packaged and ready to go - I'll include the fix in that. I was waiting for Octane 1.1 to be included, but this issue warrants a more urgent release.

Ken, on further inspection, this appears to be working correctly. The screen shot you've provided is showing 2_SkinHip, but the Octane node in the screen shot is 2_SkinTorso. Would it be possible to send a screenshot where the materials are the same? And pls rightclick the material in the Material tab of the plugin and "Re-Import this material from Poser" first.

Thanks
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