Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

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Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby Lightray » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:21 am

Lightray Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:21 am
Here is a test I did to show the compared renders of Octane plug in to a match shot of the same figure model in Keyshot 3.0 The model is a standard OBJ.

As you can see, there is a stark difference here. The render quality is just not very good with the model in Octane. The colors are blown out and the textures muted and the quality is far from photo realistic. Again, the materials don't look very good.
I would like to get the same results in Octane as I do in Keyshot. They both render fast. How can this be achieved? That is the question.

The exact same model with the same textures applied, were rendered in the two programs, gives very different results. The question I have is how can this problem be solved?

The lighting in Poser was the same HDR lighting used in Keyshot with the Poser lights included. Other than the scene looking a bit brighter in the Octane shot, there should have been no difference, and yet, the Keyshot take was much cleaner and more photo quality. Both software render at about the same speed.

If Octane can make this plug in work as well as Keyshot does, then it will be a winner in my book. But so far... it falls a little short.
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Octane Test 2.png
Keyshot Test.png
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby glimpse » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:06 am

glimpse Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:06 am
mm, the first idea came to my head that this looks more as the lack of knowledge & experimentation rather then bare differences or even weekness of software. like every tool Octane unique.. & before You compare in a way like this be sure You know ins & outs of every single corner of the package..

this might be good for out of the box comparison.. but..- that's only it.

Feels like comparing pencil to marker - small kid would say one thing, while experianced old school (read: analog) designer would provide You with other thoughts =)

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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby face_off » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:12 am

face_off Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:12 am
Lightray - if you can post screenshots of the Poser Materials that you believe are not converting correctly, I can sort out your problems. If you can post a screenshot of the red and yellow armour materials and the helmet, that would be great.
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby mlru » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:08 pm

mlru Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:08 pm
Lightray wrote:The exact same model with the same textures applied, were rendered in the two programs, gives very different results. The question I have is how can this problem be solved?

The materials for Octane have to be tweacked in the Octane Plugin. Paul does a very good job in converting the material settings over from Poser, but this often goes only half the way. There are just too many possibilities.
I usually don't care for Poser's material room at all and work on the shaders only within the plugin. In this way you get the best out of the Octane renderer.
Last edited by mlru on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby acc24ex » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:22 pm

acc24ex Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:22 pm
:) I think keyshot is cute (and way overpriced), since I always notice I can get better renders in octane
- well, clearly here - it's a matter of getting yourself familiar with octane
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby Lightray » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:57 pm

Lightray Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:57 pm
Obviously, the problem with Octane is the interface... it's not very easy to use. For someone like me, new to the use of 3D software, it's taken me a lot of time (many hours) just to figure out how to do the basics. I had no trouble with Keyshot. It was much simpler to understand. Only took me a couple of hours to lean. Octane has taken me weeks and I'm still uncomfortable with it most of the time.
1. improve the interface. Make settings window larger and expandable.
2. Make the render window show a full 1920 x 1080 size image at any size. So when working on a shot in HD, I can see the entire image. Not just part of it.
3. Visual materials window instead of a group of settings. (Like the stand alone version) Which is why I like Keyshot's interface.
4. Better Lighting parameters, which give more photo quality results quicker. Making it less work tweaking the settings. Example: HDR lighting setups.

With the help of Paul, I was able to correct the materials importing issue, but the materials just don't look very good. I know it's a matter of adjusting the settings, but it would be better if I didn't have to adjust anything.

Okay, I may not be an expert user, but it's not about that. It's about how easy it is to get good results with little effort. I know this is a Beta version, but it's difficult to get the same results as I get with Keyshot which allows me to drag and drop materials onto the model and see results instantly. Having to "tweak" the little dials and fumble with the settings in a undersized plug in window is very time consuming to say the least. If I work with a model in Poser/Octane it takes many hours of adjusting the settings, and I still have not gotten the same kind of results I get with Keyshot in less time.

All I would like to see is an easier interface. One that allows me to use the power that Octane has to it's fullest without wasting my time fiddling with a lot of settings. If the model would export to the rendering engine EXACTLY as it looks in Poser, then that would solve 99 percent of the problems. I think this software has a LOT of potential, but it's not there yet. There is a lot of room for improvement. If the Poser settings would transfer directly to the plug in, that would make things simple. What you have in Poser would be what you have in Octane. I think that is the biggest problem. If Octane would use the Poser settings, there would be no need to "Tweak" the settings in Octane.

I'm making a movie, and I've done some test renders Using Keyshot and Octane. There is a page on Face Book. www.facebook.com/Outpost731 if anyone is interested. I would like to be able to rely on Octane to do all of my renderings and get good Photo quality renders, but I'm not sure if that will be as easy to do. I will accept all the help I can get.
I hope that those improvements come quickly... I'm in need of a rendering engine that fits into my workflow.
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby badmilk69 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:11 pm

badmilk69 Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:11 pm
I think you need to tweak more your materials and your lights, everybody here do that across all apps: max,c4d,maya, etc.
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby gabrielefx » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:22 am

gabrielefx Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:22 am
A friend of mine, artist in Weta, Double Negative, Digital Domain and now in ILM-Disney, is using Keyshot to create previews of his Z Brush creatures.
His name is Marco Di Lucca.
I told him to use Octane for Maya. Obviously in his professional work he use Renderman.
He loves Keyshot but I donno why.
Probably the interface is easier than Octane and the render is less unbiased (faster)

I think that Otoy should give free Octane licenses to big cg companies to understand what it lacks.
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby Lightray » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:34 pm

Lightray Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:34 pm
Oh I understand why he would use Keyshot for previews, it's fast and easy. I totally agree with him on that. But to do animation, it's a pain in the ass.
If it did full keyframe animation, then I'd use that for 90 percent of my work. However, it doesn't and that is why I chose to buy Octane. I just wish it was as easy to use.
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Re: Octane render comparison to Keyshot Renders

Postby face_off » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:40 pm

face_off Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:40 pm
1. improve the interface. Make settings window larger and expandable.
2. Make the render window show a full 1920 x 1080 size image at any size. So when working on a shot in HD, I can see the entire image. Not just part of it.
3. Visual materials window instead of a group of settings. (Like the stand alone version) Which is why I like Keyshot's interface.
4. Better Lighting parameters, which give more photo quality results quicker. Making it less work tweaking the settings. Example: HDR lighting setups.

1) Was done in the last release
2) Simply clock the lock the resolution button, set the resolution to 1920x1080 in the plugin settings, and stretch the window to your full screen
3) This is not possible with Poser 9, but may be doable in Poser 10.
4) HDR lighting setups - I have a collection of HDR maps, and simply load one of them into the "environment" node in the "Settings" tab of the plugin. You can rotation the HDR map to fine tune the light effects you want, and add additional emitters (from Poser) lights if you need additional fill lights.

If the model would export to the rendering engine EXACTLY as it looks in Poser, then that would solve 99 percent of the problems.

The purpose of the plugin is to provide an interactive way to render Poser scenes in Octane via the Poser GUI. The material conversion is intended to retrieve the material assets (texturemaps, colors, etc) from the Poser Material and set them up as an Octane materials. Due to the nature of the Poser node system, a 100% conversion is not possible (this is the case for all plugins and all renderers). At the moment it's a 90% conversion, and if you provide screen shots of Poser materials which do not convert well, I can enhance the plugin to cater for these situations. Case in point: the version of the plugin I am testing at the moment now brings across image scaling and specular maps from the Poser material to the Octane material.

http://www.facebook.com/Outpost731
- looks great!

I would like to be able to rely on Octane to do all of my renderings and get good Photo quality renders,

To do this, may I suggest reading the Octane Standalone and Poser plugin manuals, and all the release notes I've posted in this forum, since they will answer most of your questions.

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