What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

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What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby alfabruce » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:29 am

alfabruce Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:29 am
Hi Everyone,

Im building a new machine and just wondering if I will see much of a difference for Rhino and Octane with the more expensive x99 motherboards and i7 6800k and quad channel ram over the cheaper 6700k or i5 6600k and 1151 dual channel motherboards.

Im not doing animation at this stage and will probably run a single 908ti sea hawk or 1070 sea hawk to try to keep it as quiet as possible.

Is there any benefit for Rhino/octane with Xeon e5-2683s with lots of cores etc as I can et one of these used for a good price.

Cheers

Tim
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby face_off » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:10 am

face_off Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:10 am
Hi Tim - perhaps fire your question to (Tom) Glimpse. IMO, the cheaper motherboard/CPU would probably be just as good as the higher end model for Octane rendering (since the bulk of the work is being done on the GPU).

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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby glimpse » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:46 am

glimpse Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:46 am
Hi Paul, Happy to help here (also, if anyone around have moderating rights move this post to hardware section)

Tim, for OctaneRender now cheaper CPU would not be any worse compared to even twice more expensive part & You might notice instances when it's faster. The reason being is that, as Paul said, most of work is done by GPU. So where CPU comes into play? There is a part called Voxelisation where scene gets prepare & transferred from CPU & RAM into GPU & video memory (vram). At the moment this process is limited to four cores, so even if You have 6, 8, 16 or more.. those will not help. What helps though is those four cores running at higher clock speeds. In most case if You compare modern CPUs higher core parts have to stick with lower clock speeds out of the box to cope with heat & that's where cheaper part (with 4cores) might be better (because they have a thermal headroom to run faster).

if I were You & if Your goal here is to save a bit of money - Stick with z170 based motherboard + fast quadcore. Then get really good cooler, something like 240/280 AIO (Corsair, ekwb or any other) with it You would keep You CPU at low temperatures, maybe even overclock. For what You save buying cheaper, but not any slower gear, You can buy Yourself NVME based SSD. Those typically have read/write speeds of around 2500/1500Mbps compared to SATA based SSDs with ~ 500/500 =) that's few times faster & so would be all Your saving, system snappiness would be way higher, etc.

As for GPU getting the best You can afford might be good deal if You care about long term investment, however if You part with let's say 12GB of vram is going to sit dusting ('cos You use only 5-6GB GB of memory), than it's just a waste of money & getting pair of 1070 or 1080s might be better deal. Talking about those two, it's hard to beat the value (performance per $) of 1070s now. Regarding to coolers, Hybrid cooler equipped cards makes a lot of sense, as they are not so noisy & way cooler. Because of that card can automatically boost (OC itself) run faster. Do not buy non reference design cooler equipped GPUs (with 2-3 fans) if You plan to put more cards in Your system & they would be close to each other.

Now all this applies to building computer if You look from OctaneRender user perspective. However if You are planing to use other software You better take into account the needs for specific program & make Your decision based on what matter to You more. Overall I would stick to specific budget You can invest now, also plan possible future upgrades (there's no need to waste money, buying expandable system if You have no need, but it also makes no sense to invest into system that You need to rebuild from the ground if You wish to add few more sticks of ram or extra GPU). Makes sense? =) It's technically impossible to recommend You something that would fit Your needs perfectly without knowing Your plans, but I hope this "short" introduction is going to give You some idea how to choose a part or two =)

Good luck & happy OctaneRendering, Tim. Feel free to ask any question if You have them still & please next time put topic into dedicated sub-forum, so it would end up being in sight for others having same or similar questions =)

Sinc.
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby alfabruce » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:26 pm

alfabruce Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:26 pm
Hi Tom and Paul,

Thanks heaps for your help here. This sort of info makes such a difference and is much appreciated on the time/quality and financial front. Tom, Ill have to send you a South Aussie beverage of some sort by way of thanks :)

I did look for a hardware forum but couldn't find anything under the licensed customer or general or Rhino.? Which one did you mean?

Sounds like the 6700k could be a good choice. Paul, does Rhino benefit from 6 cores being a modeller?

The other things I will reusing the computer for are

a) I also do a fair bit of photoshop illustration and the like and plan to buy a cintiq at some stage soon to assist with modifying painting over renderings. I would have thought the 4 core 6700 would be heaps here.
b) may buy a drone and do some ariel 3D images from photos and video. Not sure but this may benefit from a 6 core CPU. What do you think.

One other thing

That faster SSD you recommend, that sounds awesome and is news to me. Is that the same as an M2+ or is it a PCI-e slot. Is there a motherboard you would recommend to make the most of this and possibly several graphics cards in the near future?

Thanks again guys

Tim
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby alfabruce » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:57 am

alfabruce Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:57 am
Hi Tom,

Also, If I buy the z170 lga 1151 motherboard will I get the most out of the NVMW m2 SSDS like a samsung 950 pro though?

I read somewhere that buying the more expensive x99 2011 v 3 motherboards mean you get the most out of the m2 SSDs by giving them 4 lanes and enough bandwidth to prevent bottlenecking.

Is this just jargon or will it really make a difference.

Thanks again

Cheers

Tim
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby prehabitat » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:59 am

prehabitat Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:59 am
alfabruce wrote:Sounds like the 6700k could be a good choice. Paul, does Rhino benefit from 6 cores being a modeller?

That faster SSD you recommend, that sounds awesome and is news to me. Is that the same as an M2+ or is it a PCI-e slot. Is there a motherboard you would recommend to make the most of this and possibly several graphics cards in the near future?

Thanks again guys

Tim


G'day, Victorian here: though I think Paul is a local too!

I'll jump in for a sec: drawing and drawing onscreen of 3D elements is for the most part a single threaded process; this is well documented across various 3D & CAD platforms. There are a lot of multi threaded operations linked to the rest of the UI & the more clever (adaptive) tools that can be multi-threaded but generally the hardest bits of 3D work rely on just one core.
https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/does-rhi ... ssors/8360
Google search 'rhino hyperthreading multithreaded' or replace 'rhino' with 'cad' or '3D' or 'photogrammetry' etc...
short answer: go with the 6700k as it's 20% faster (http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-6 ... ntel-6800K)


Re: M2 & NVMe;

M2 is the interface but implies nothing about the protocol used; you can have (slow) Sata drive that has an M2 connection or a fast NVMe via M2.
M2 drives also come in several different lengths; 42, 60 & 80mm from memory (aka 2242, 2260 and 2280)

NVMe is a protocol for allowing a pice device to act as an ssd.. there's info around if you more interested: but I recommending just learning what you need to about the interface & performance spec you require...
To answer your original question: NVMe will likely be noted on both M2 and PCIe slot storage products listed..

Lastly, regarding the Cintiq: I just bought myself one of these: I got it on sale for just over $1500 as configured.
http://www3.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/th ... 2TP2TSS460
16gb ram, 2gb 940m & i7 6500u (also has a 6600u with slightly faster processor if you don't want the 940m).

It's not advertised (well) as such but it has a Wacom digitiser built-in with 2048 pressure sensitivity & can get upgraded pens from Wacom/others that are better than the built-in one(softer nibs etc).. highly recommended if you want a soft entry into that space without sinking 5x GPUs worth of cash on a cintiq.

Hope that helps! :)

Next time I'm in SA we can have a coopers together :)
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby alfabruce » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:16 am

alfabruce Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:16 am
Hi Prehabitat,

Thanks for the info. Yeah Ive ordered the 6700k now and probably a gigabyte z170x -ud5 th motherboard with the thunderbolt connection. Ill grab a samsung 950 pro and hopefully boot from that.

That lenovo looks awesome and I did consider something like that. How do you find drawing on it though when its still attached to the keyboard. Reason I ask is I bought and old Samsung Lifeboat a few years ago with a wacom enabled screen and I thought its was going to be the answer to all my needs but found it very difficult to use.

Ha ha, yeah its was a funny day a few years ago I asked a question on this forum about octane/rhino just after Id bought the license and found out that Paul lived in the very same city...as me....pretty bizarre. Havant met him in person yet. Yeah ha ha Im going to have a coopers in about 15 minutes.

What sort of stuff are you doing with your setup?

Cheers

Tim
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby prehabitat » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:33 pm

prehabitat Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:33 pm
alfabruce wrote:.......How do you find drawing on it though when its still attached to the keyboard. Reason I ask is I bought and old Samsung Lifeboat a few years ago with a wacom enabled screen and I thought its was going to be the answer to all my needs but found it very difficult to use.

,.......

.....
What sort of stuff are you doing with your setup?


I dont mind it, the Lenovo is a convertible; so can fold flat with the keyboard to either side for portrait use or with the keyboard above for upside down landscape use. The screen sits quite flat to the desk so its not that dissimilar to my A4 Wacom pro (though with a sharper edge - which is only really annoying when sketching at the edges, at which point you can two-finger pan the work area back to the centre).
You can also fold the screen back on the bottom of the case to make it more like a conventional tablet - it is quite thick though and only really suitable for sketching on your lap in my opinion.

I am in the process of building a little DIY CNC , I may end up making a little drafting table module for my desk with a purpose designed pocket (with removable infill) then I can drop the Lenovo in and rest my palm on the drafting table around it..

I work for a large architecture firm delivering national retail rollouts and have a young family; so have a flexi agreement where I work on the train on the way in/out to make up the hours from 32 hour week.
The work I do on it is just the normal stuff associated with my role; which basically covers everything from fee writing, Architectural engagement contract review and sketching design intent right through to marking up contract docs for my team and developing deploy-able kit of parts for the rollouts(in revit).
I'm also the only one in my extended family with any AEC knowledge so end up doing a bit of love work.
Personal projects are mainly focused on real-time workflows (Revit/Rhino -> Quixel/Substance ->UE4), CNC and some really fun stuff in Rhino that ties into my other passion (Mountainbiking).

Needless to say I don't really use the Wacom Pro or the Lenovo wacom in anger in my current role - but I really enjoy it when I get a chance and its a big part of my productive week smashing out markups..

Regards,

Andrew
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby alfabruce » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:24 am

alfabruce Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:24 am
Hi Andrew,

Sounds like you certainly keep yourself busy. Im a bit the same in that Ive changed career from being an Industrial Designer to a secondary school Design and Tech teacher but I have a strong need to keep myself thinking and designing and creating creative visual stuff. Funny you mention mountain biking because thats one of my passions too (just bought an old Dean titanium frame which I'm rebuilding as a commuter and haven't risen a ti bike before so I'm looking forward to the flex experience) and Im currently designing a crazy out there bike just for fun in Rhino and octane, that was until my current machine spat the dummy.

One other interesting possibility is the Asus Transformer 3 pro. Im considering this for a number of reasons

Can be detached from the keyboard so it basically becomes a cintiq style for photoshop and art rage illustrations, nice and light and slim
Has the wacom enabled screen (not sure about how much pressure sensitivity though)
Also has thunderbolt three connection so it could be the one stop shop with the Asus xg station 2 (a bit ugly) or similar EGPU add on.

Portable for sketching etc
Plug it in at home for extra GPU grunt to render with Octane.

Only problem is the slightly expensive price of some of the EGPU units currently and Im not keen to build my own. Might not be grunt enough for bigger rhino models.

Cheers

Tim
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Re: What would you recommended i7 6800k, 6700k or i5 6600k

Postby prehabitat » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:57 am

prehabitat Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:57 am
alfabruce wrote:... an old Dean titanium frame which I'm rebuilding as a commuter and haven't risen a ti bike before so I'm looking forward to the flex experience.....

Very cool, never owned a Ti (yet). the closest I owned was an old tig-welded XC Chromoly frame that I converted to a single-speed (non-fixed) and used as a commuter. It had really light weight single ply tires and narrow rims laced with thin springy spokes so the whole thing was an experience in stored/borrowed energy and flow :mrgreen:
Check out fireflybikes... they make a few 'one-day' bikes for when the kids get older :mrgreen:

One other interesting possibility is the Asus Transformer 3 pro. Im considering this for a number of reasons

Can be detached from the keyboard so it basically becomes a Cintiq style for Photoshop and art rage illustrations, nice and light and slim

Totally get where you're coming from wanting this.
I had a surface pro 4 through work, really light and functional device when in the office but it wasn't practical for me to use on the train if the train suddenly slows etc... (Digress: I also found the Surface to be buggy, would only boot 1/3 of the time... often took 3x reboots to get into windows: I never worked out if it was a suspend issue, or hibernate issue, or hardware, or otherwise... it used to drive me batty and Microsoft is terrible with support; they have the same scripted process they take you through to solve every problem starting with reset and ends with 'just send it in and we'll replace it'. The last few options totally ignore that it takes hours to set up a professional workstation and connect/download all the cloud data after reinstall or replacement device.)
Not to dissuade you from the transformer; my experience was only with the surface and not many people try to do mobile workstation activities on the train like it do (necessity of having a small family)

Has the Wacom enabled screen (not sure about how much pressure sensitivity though)

From what I can tell anything over '256 levels' is enough... It would be interesting to have a RGB spectrum output linked to pen pressure so you could see if its actually possible to exert pressure selectively to what resolution. I'd argue some inconsistency is essential for authenticity too. I think over 256 levels it would be difficult to visually tell the difference between the digital approximation and reality of an (analogue) instrument (brush etc) especially if the brushes used are 'stylised'.

Also has thunderbolt three connection so it could be the one stop shop with the Asus xg station 2 (a bit ugly) or similar EGPU add on.

Portable for sketching etc
Plug it in at home for extra GPU grunt to render with Octane.

Only problem is the slightly expensive price of some of the EGPU units currently and Im not keen to build my own. Might not be grunt enough for bigger rhino models.

Very cool having the flexibility to add a GTX1080 via the ROG thingy.. I tend to remove connect to a workstation and just use the grunt there if I need it. the Lenovo only has a gt940m with octane score or ~11 and no real eGPU options.
Win10/3770/16gb/K600(display)/GTX780(Octane)/GTX590/372.70
Octane 3.x: GH Lands VARQ Rhino5 -Rhino.io- C4D R16 / Revit17
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