Terminator problem ?!...

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Terminator problem ?!...

Postby galford » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:24 am

galford Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:24 am
...
Hello guys,

Can someone here tell us, when and who will resolve the terminator problem ??

This is so important for use this marvelous engine render...OCTANE.

Sadly unusable for me in animation, until this will be OK : Ability to use low poly characters for animation.

As customers and fans of the product, we really need an answer !

Thanks,
Franck.
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby steveps3 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:19 am

steveps3 Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:19 am
The Arnie, terminator problem?
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby galford » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:49 pm

galford Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:49 pm
steveps3 wrote:The Arnie, terminator problem?

Not Arnie... :roll:

This problem : http://refractivesoftware.com/forum/vie ... tor#p49173

Very frustrating !...

Franck. :(
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby galford » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:20 pm

galford Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:20 pm
20 days and still no response from anyone !?... :(

Note that I paid 99euros for the product, like everybody here, as a customer, I think I should have a quick and clear answer from Refractive Software...

Thanks to take my request in consideration.

Franck.
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby abreukers » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:15 pm

abreukers Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:15 pm
galford wrote:20 days and still no response from anyone !?... :(

Note that I paid 99euros for the product, like everybody here, as a customer, I think I should have a quick and clear answer from Refractive Software...

Thanks to take my request in consideration.

Franck.



Hi Franck. With the myriad of questions on the forum, it can happen that one gets overlooked. Someone was even kind enough to send us a pm just so we can see THIS post. Members of the Octane Render community generally want to help and they have the right to do so. Often their experience already gives very appropriate answers to users questions. We were not aware that you remain unsatisfied of this help, kindly send an email to support at refractivesoftware dot com and place a link to your topic/post (that has your query) so we can check, replicate, test... and then get back to you.
Cheers...
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby radiance » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:30 am

radiance Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:30 am
Hi frank,

The ray terminator problem is not a bug.
Its a natural side effect of trying to render a mesh object with a raytracing algorithm, where the mesh object has too few vertices, and the edges between connected triangles are too high angled to be interpolated propperly.

There is no real solution for this other than some trickery that produces bias and would not solve the problem completely.

The problem and solution here is to provide octane with a good model.
You need to export your object with a good resolution of vertices, so your object renders smooth with no terminator effect problems visible.

You cannot expect to have a get a perfect, smooth, circle on a piece of paper by only placing 8 dots in a circular pattern and then connecting the lines. It will look like an octagon, not a perfect circle.
You need to give say 100 or 200 points in a circular pattern to end up with something that looks like a smooth circle to your eyes.

There are ways to have octane subdivide and increase resolution of your meshes internally.
Which is a feature called rendertime adaptive subdivision and displacement, which is a very large and complex feature to develop, expecially on a GPU.
It is on our roadmap, but not scheduled for at least a few months, we need to finish the base engine features first and go final, then add advanced features such as this one in future versions.

Just increase your mesh vertex density and export higher quality models for rendering, like everyone else does.
I know it takes some time to export and import/voxelise, but it works, and this slow workflow will be gone with our upcoming instancing in beta 2.6 and our new integrated plugins, that will replace these export scripts.

Radiance

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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby galford » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:50 am

galford Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:50 am
radiance wrote:Hi frank,

The ray terminator problem is not a bug.
Its a natural side effect of trying to render a mesh object with a raytracing algorithm, where the mesh object has too few vertices, and the edges between connected triangles are too high angled to be interpolated propperly.

Hi Radiance,

Thanks for your time to respond me. :)
Yes, I know that if I increase the resolution of the mesh on a high level, the terminator problem is less visible....but like you know, for character animation this is not a good method to work....the subdivision must happen only at the render time and not when you animate your puppet.

Sorry, but I'm not agree when you said that terminator problem come from my models, because How can you explain that my models have no terminator problems in Lightwave, messiah or maxwell render, but when I render them with Octane the terminator problem reappears ?
And I don't use subdivision at render time !
Because of this comparison I can see that something is different in Octane and don't work properly...
I assume that to do character animation with Octane, we really need the correction of this terminator problem, to render our meshes in Octane like in others renderer.

I just want to tell you that I really enjoy Octane render and I want to use it for my work, but because of this difference with other renderer I can't...so I'm very disappointed and everyone who want's to do character animation will be...so we need your help.

Well, please let me know what you think about this...

Regards,
Franck.
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby face » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:55 am

face Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:55 am
Maybe you can use the lowres character to deform the highres character and export only the highres version...

face
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby galford » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:42 pm

galford Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:42 pm
face wrote:Maybe you can use the lowres character to deform the highres character and export only the highres version...

face


Yes, I tried it and it works...I can do this for the moment....but this is not convenient on production.
RS team should resolve the terminator problem to allow Octane to work like the other renderer.

I'm waiting a response about that from Radiance.

Franck.
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Re: Terminator problem ?!...

Postby face » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:57 pm

face Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:57 pm
galford wrote:
face wrote:Maybe you can use the lowres character to deform the highres character and export only the highres version...

face


Yes, I tried it and it works...I can do this for the moment....but this is not convenient on production.
RS team should resolve the terminator problem to allow Octane to work like the other renderer.

I'm waiting a response about that from Radiance.

Franck.

So mush i know, this is the right way to rig an character.
No one rig a character which has millions of polygons because of the feedback in you 3d-app.
Pro is also, that you can change the character on the fly without to animate the whole from the beginning.
But ok, maybe your workflow is an other ;)

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