OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby mojave » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:26 am

mojave Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:26 am
Jolbertoquini wrote:
mojave wrote:
divasoft wrote:Something breaks when I turn on RTX


Hi,

Could you give more details about what doesn't look right in your scene or share it via PM so we can look into it?

Thank you.


I tried on the Groot scene the one I send to the siggraph I can send you again the scene without I have 25 seconds 2 RTX 2080ti and with RTX on I have 27seconds.

I will send to you the files.

Cheers,
JO


Thank you, I have just checked your scene. I can see that it is mostly comprised of displacement triangles plus a small number of regular triangles. Note that at the moment just regular triangles are handled by RTX but Octane still needs to process displacement in the usual way, which are two separate passes. This is likely adding the overhead you see. As I mentioned in an earlier post we might come up with a solution to automatically select which mode is best for a specific scene before this version is final. Also our plan is that in the future all geometry will be handled by RTX so more scenes should benefit from it as this is implemented.
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby mojave » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am

mojave Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:40 am
Notiusweb wrote:
rohandalvi wrote:From everything I've read and seen, the primary benefit of RTX is on scenes with lots of geometry. For simple scenes with complex shaders it doesn't do much.



OTOY-
This is an interesting topic because ideally one would want the 'RTX-Boost', as it were, to occur right on instant use, especially for smaller time scales.
But, the RTX-Boost, it is some sort of cumulative process instead?

You know what I mean? If it is boosting speed by 2.2x, should it turn a total 4-second render to a 2-second render, or is more like it will turn a 4-minute render to a 2-minute render.

THX!


If for a given frame RTX on would give you a speedup of N this applies even to a single sample, meaning that if for this frame a sample would usually take 1 millisecond to be rendered, the same sample will now take 1/N milliseconds. If you would then render 60K samples of the same frame what before would take 1 minute it should potentially take 1/N minutes and so on for any arbitrary number of samples.
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby Jolbertoquini » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:53 am

Jolbertoquini Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:53 am
mojave wrote:Thank you, I have just checked your scene. I can see that it is mostly comprised of displacement triangles plus a small number of regular triangles. Note that at the moment just regular triangles are handled by RTX but Octane still needs to process displacement in the usual way, which are two separate passes. This is likely adding the overhead you see. As I mentioned in an earlier post we might come up with a solution to automatically select which mode is best for a specific scene before this version is final. Also our plan is that in the future all geometry will be handled by RTX so more scenes should benefit from it as this is implemented.




Oh Great to know I will test more in the scenes without that type thanks for the feedback. ;)
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby Notiusweb » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:31 pm

Notiusweb Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:31 pm
Hey Divasoft and Jolbertoquini -
you know the scene in the RTX Octane Bench where you could test and get a measure of the boost factor RTX will give you, do you now get that same boost factor for that same scene if you test it in this XB1 test build?
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby Sportler » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:09 pm

Sportler Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:09 pm
Hi, will there be a Linux download for this release? Thanks! :D
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby abayliss » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:41 pm

abayliss Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:41 pm
Notiusweb wrote:Hey Divasoft and Jolbertoquini -
you know the scene in the RTX Octane Bench where you could test and get a measure of the boost factor RTX will give you, do you now get that same boost factor for that same scene if you test it in this XB1 test build?


I have tested the Octane Bench 2019 scene in 2019.2 XB1 and I receive the same boost.

If I test one of my own scenes in 2019.2 XB1 I receive almost no boost, or none at all. Even if my scene has more triangles than the Octane Bench 2019 scene. (Note: I made sure the triangles weren't displacement triangles.) The Octane Bench 2019 scene has ~ 1.9 million triangles. I tested a scene with 1.4 million triangles and saw no speed increase, and a scene with 3.2 million triangles which saw a 10% speed increase.

The only difference I could see if the Octane Bench 2019 has thousands of meshes and a lot of lights. Where as my scene with 3.2 million triangles only had 6 meshes.
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby abayliss » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:54 pm

abayliss Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:54 pm
Two things I have observed while messing around with 2019.2 XB1.

1. Having AI light and RTX enabled at the same time results in a CUDA error.

2. Adaptive sampling seems to cap out at around 120 M/sec for me when I have RTX enabled. This may be an edge case, but I ended up with an adaptive sampling enabled render that started off almost 3x as fast with RTX enabled, but was then overtaken and completed in ~ half the time by the exact same render with RTX disabled.
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby rohandalvi » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:36 am

rohandalvi Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:36 am
There is an issue with the new SSS. With Daz models the skin is broken into multiple sections, Face, Torso, Arms and legs. So you need different shaders for each section to setup the full skin.

In 2019.2 I can see a visible seam between the two shaders. This wasn't happening before.

I'm attaching a very simple orbx to demonstrate the issue.

regards
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby nejck » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:45 am

nejck Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:45 am
abayliss wrote:
Notiusweb wrote:Hey Divasoft and Jolbertoquini -
you know the scene in the RTX Octane Bench where you could test and get a measure of the boost factor RTX will give you, do you now get that same boost factor for that same scene if you test it in this XB1 test build?


I have tested the Octane Bench 2019 scene in 2019.2 XB1 and I receive the same boost.

If I test one of my own scenes in 2019.2 XB1 I receive almost no boost, or none at all. Even if my scene has more triangles than the Octane Bench 2019 scene. (Note: I made sure the triangles weren't displacement triangles.) The Octane Bench 2019 scene has ~ 1.9 million triangles. I tested a scene with 1.4 million triangles and saw no speed increase, and a scene with 3.2 million triangles which saw a 10% speed increase.

The only difference I could see if the Octane Bench 2019 has thousands of meshes and a lot of lights. Where as my scene with 3.2 million triangles only had 6 meshes.


From what I understand triangle count isn't that important per say. What is more important is what the rays are doing.

Example:
Studio scene is fairly easy to calculate because you get a couple of ray bounces and thats it. They even hit fairly similar surfaces / materials most of the time. RT cores can't help much here.

A large grass field has a ton of rays bouncing in all kinds of different directions and many times they have really complex paths. RT cores can help you out a lot here because they do most of the BVH and path calculations so that the CUDA cores can do their shader math and what not. It basically frees up compute time for CUDA cores to do what CUDA cores do better and RT cores do what RT cores do better.

So then a trickier scenario is an interior arch-viz shot. If the room is empty I can't imagine RT cores have a ton to do there so you'll see less of a speed gain. Put a ton of objects in there so that the light is bouncing around different complex (high triangle count?) objects and such, well then you'll probably see a fair increase.

Mind you, thats just how I understand it. I could be wrong :)
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Re: OctaneRender™ 2019.2 XB1

Postby Notiusweb » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Notiusweb Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:15 pm
nejck wrote:
abayliss wrote:
Notiusweb wrote:Hey Divasoft and Jolbertoquini -
you know the scene in the RTX Octane Bench where you could test and get a measure of the boost factor RTX will give you, do you now get that same boost factor for that same scene if you test it in this XB1 test build?


I have tested the Octane Bench 2019 scene in 2019.2 XB1 and I receive the same boost.

If I test one of my own scenes in 2019.2 XB1 I receive almost no boost, or none at all. Even if my scene has more triangles than the Octane Bench 2019 scene. (Note: I made sure the triangles weren't displacement triangles.) The Octane Bench 2019 scene has ~ 1.9 million triangles. I tested a scene with 1.4 million triangles and saw no speed increase, and a scene with 3.2 million triangles which saw a 10% speed increase.

The only difference I could see if the Octane Bench 2019 has thousands of meshes and a lot of lights. Where as my scene with 3.2 million triangles only had 6 meshes.


From what I understand triangle count isn't that important per say. What is more important is what the rays are doing.

Example:
Studio scene is fairly easy to calculate because you get a couple of ray bounces and thats it. They even hit fairly similar surfaces / materials most of the time. RT cores can't help much here.

A large grass field has a ton of rays bouncing in all kinds of different directions and many times they have really complex paths. RT cores can help you out a lot here because they do most of the BVH and path calculations so that the CUDA cores can do their shader math and what not. It basically frees up compute time for CUDA cores to do what CUDA cores do better and RT cores do what RT cores do better.

So then a trickier scenario is an interior arch-viz shot. If the room is empty I can't imagine RT cores have a ton to do there so you'll see less of a speed gain. Put a ton of objects in there so that the light is bouncing around different complex (high triangle count?) objects and such, well then you'll probably see a fair increase.

Mind you, thats just how I understand it. I could be wrong :)


@Abayliss & Nejck - Fascinating finds and observations!

This is then now my theory, where X = poly-count/poly-element

So, imagine a single cube render scenario, 2 different render scenes:
1) 1 Cube is very high Poly - 1,000X
2) 1 Cube is very low Poly - 1X
But because it is a single cube being rendered, probably no RTX Boost. So here the mere poly count does not entail higher RTX Boost.

Then, a 20 cube render scenario:
1) 20 cubes very high poly - 20,000X
2) 20 cubes very low poly - 20X
In this case, probably a RTX Boost now occurs because there are a lot of cubes for light rays to contend with, but in each case Boost would be equal, because #ray interaction is same

Finally, this comparison
1) 1 Cube very high poly - 1,000x
2) 20 Cubes very low poly - 20x

Now here, the scene with 1 Cube renders faster, in absolute terms, because there is less ray interactivity.
But, the RTX-Boost, as measured independent from render time, would be higher in the case of the 20 cubes, where there were more rays to contend with.

So, you can have a situation then where RTX-Boost itself, as measured independent from render time, is actually stronger in a lower poly scenario than a higher poly scenario!

So with 'RTX-Boost' we cannot equate 'higher-poly' to meaning 'more complex'.
Rather, the 'more complex' is # interactions between light rays and objects.


Thoughts?
:P

PS -POLARIZED LIGHTING!
WHERE THE 'F' ARE YOU!!!?....

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