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Re: Fork Blender

Postby ivobran » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:50 pm

ivobran Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:50 pm
Hi Lino!

Since now we have a date for the first RC for 2.8 from the Blender people, do you have information on whether you will follow that schedule for releasing Octane for Blender 2.8?

Thanks in advance for any info!

P.s. some more preview goodies on how it looks would be quite welcomed as well if there are any :)
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby linograndiotoy » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 am

linograndiotoy Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 am
FrankPooleFloating wrote:Take all the time in the world that you need. Really. Weeks.. Months.. Matters not to me. It's official now: You'll need to win me back from E-Cycles, and that is likely to be quite challenging for you. Octane Blender 2.8 will need to be able to use PrBSDF, and be faster than E-Cycles, which it doesn't appear to be for now...


Considering some test I made, Octane is still faster than E-Cycles when you compare 2 renders with the same level of noise, and once RTX will be added to the main build of Octane 2019, it will of course be incredibly faster than E-Cycles in most situations.

Octane for Blender 2.8 will be available as soon as Blender 2.8 itself will enter its RC stage this month.


FrankPooleFloating wrote:Don't worry, I'll need to keep my Octane license active for years yet, because there may still be the odd thing or two that Octane does better or Cycles can't do, and there is a high likelihood that I'll need to reopen some of my old Octane LightWave jobs...

But regardless of how things turn out for us, thank you so much for providing me with a wonderful engine and a kickass LW Plug (Juanjo effing rocks!) for these 6.5 years! Take care guys! Good luck with what lies ahead! I'm rootin' for ya!


You're welcome! My feeling is that you'll stay in Octane for a very long time! ;)
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby linograndiotoy » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:29 am

linograndiotoy Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:29 am
ivobran wrote:Hi Lino!

Since now we have a date for the first RC for 2.8 from the Blender people, do you have information on whether you will follow that schedule for releasing Octane for Blender 2.8?

Thanks in advance for any info!

P.s. some more preview goodies on how it looks would be quite welcomed as well if there are any :)


Hi!

Octane for Blender 2.8 will be available as soon as the official Blender 2.8 will enter the RC1 stage (this month).

I'll work on some more sneak peek for sure! ;)

Thanks!
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby FrankPooleFloating » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:47 pm

FrankPooleFloating Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:47 pm
linograndiotoy wrote:
FrankPooleFloating wrote:Take all the time in the world that you need. Really. Weeks.. Months.. Matters not to me. It's official now: You'll need to win me back from E-Cycles, and that is likely to be quite challenging for you. Octane Blender 2.8 will need to be able to use PrBSDF, and be faster than E-Cycles, which it doesn't appear to be for now...


Considering some test I made, Octane is still faster than E-Cycles when you compare 2 renders with the same level of noise, and once RTX will be added to the main build of Octane 2019, it will of course be incredibly faster than E-Cycles in most situations.

Octane for Blender 2.8 will be available as soon as Blender 2.8 itself will enter its RC stage this month.

FrankPooleFloating wrote:Don't worry, I'll need to keep my Octane license active for years yet, because there may still be the odd thing or two that Octane does better or Cycles can't do, and there is a high likelihood that I'll need to reopen some of my old Octane LightWave jobs...

But regardless of how things turn out for us, thank you so much for providing me with a wonderful engine and a kickass LW Plug (Juanjo effing rocks!) for these 6.5 years! Take care guys! Good luck with what lies ahead! I'm rootin' for ya!


You're welcome! My feeling is that you'll stay in Octane for a very long time! ;)


Hmmm... extensive testing by some EC users contradict your test results quite a bit. And I believe that E-C too will be getting speed gains with RTX (which I do not own yet, and may not for some time). But render speed is really a secondary thing for me anyway. I am way the hell more concerned with materials, and I am telling you guys right now, I will probably download Octane Blender 2.8 and fart around with it a little, just for shits-and-giggles, but until I am able to work in it and not need to lift a finger to change anything having to do with materials, I will not likely be using it in production, at all. It is as simple as that. Like before, I'm just being honest. I effing love my current PrBSDF and E-Cycles workflow. You have your work cut out for you bro, for sure. Again, good luck Lino.
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby ChrisH » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:23 pm

ChrisH Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:23 pm
Hi (Not) Frank! :)

I'm just curious, from one artist to another: What is it that you're missing/not able to achieve with Octane's "Universal Material" that you have with Principled BSDF in Cycles? *
I love the PrincBSDF, but when I set up shading for Cycles I often miss the "extra" features the Universal material node from Octane.
Octane_Universal.png


(*They are both based on the same PBR model. NB: They differ slightly, like the roughness values doesn't match up, by default, [0.1 is rougher in Octane than Cycles].t [it's a lot closer if you switch the model to GGX])
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby FrankPooleFloating » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:12 pm

FrankPooleFloating Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:12 pm
Hi Chris. I have no complaints about Octane Universal Material itself. It's wonderful. But just the fact that Octane materials (Universal or otherwise) do not play with Graswald and other addons that use PrBSDF is a deal-breaker for me. And beyond that (not that I need more reason), I am able to export glTFs from Painter, pop them into my Blender scene, and hit F12.. Bang! Done! Until Octane Blender can specifically do these things, it's utterly useless to me. Dead to me. I've absolutely loved being an Octane user for all these years, but I am loving my current situation so much more. I'm like a kid in a dang candy store... I'm working in ways and doing things that is blowing my goddamn mind and even making my chosen profession fun again. And I'm even to a point that it profoundly saddens me that I have wasted so much of my professional life on LightWave.. so many years. I'm trying so hard to not even think about that, but had I truly known just how woefully inept it is, I would have abandoned ship many years ago. I dunno, maybe 3DSMax, Maya, or even pre-2.8 Blender would have not been as fast for the work I was mostly doing.. but regardless, opening LW just feels like a joke now.

And I have to tell ya, if I went to try and use Node Wrangler (et al) while setting up Octane mats and it didn't do anything when I hit Ctrl+T, I would be totally pissed. Stuff like that... I want Octane to use the native shite in Blender. Period. I hope for Otoy's sake that they find a way to make this happen. I really do.
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby linograndiotoy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:22 pm

linograndiotoy Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:22 pm
FrankPooleFloating wrote:Hmmm... extensive testing by some EC users contradict your test results quite a bit. And I believe that E-C too will be getting speed gains with RTX (which I do not own yet, and may not for some time). But render speed is really a secondary thing for me anyway. I am way the hell more concerned with materials, and I am telling you guys right now, I will probably download Octane Blender 2.8 and fart around with it a little, just for shits-and-giggles, but until I am able to work in it and not need to lift a finger to change anything having to do with materials, I will not likely be using it in production, at all. It is as simple as that. Like before, I'm just being honest. I effing love my current PrBSDF and E-Cycles workflow. You have your work cut out for you bro, for sure. Again, good luck Lino.


Where is it possible to check this extensive E-Cycles vs Octane testing results?

I've seen some and I must say I've been able to revert the results pretty easily, just tweaking Octane's settings properly.

Comparing 2 different renders is not an easy task at all. Best way to do it is to offer a base scene to expert users and ask them to tweak it targeting for the same level of noise and quality for the final render. Of course then both scenes need to be rendered on the same system.

I'm totally open to this challenge. ;)

Out of curiosity, is Out of Core available and working in Cycles/E-Cycles already?
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby pegot » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:12 pm

pegot Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:12 pm
I haven't tried E-Cycles as I'm pretty happy with Octane, particularly the speed that can be acquired using denoising and low samples for some scenes. But I agree with FrankPooleFloating that proper gLTF 2.0 support is necessary and way overdue.

It can be really frustrating having to convert materials back and forth in a mixed workflow environment. I also use gLTF export from other applications (Substance Painter, Cheetah 3D) and bring them into Blender for final rendering or further modification. But I am also increasingly using gLTF for 3d objects in PowerPoint. It would be a huge time saver if I could export a gLTF from materials I create directly in Octane. Being able to output to multiple formats (webGL, or high res still or video animation) form a consistent texture node base is highly attractive.

FrankPooleFloating is also correct on the level of frustration in not always being able to fully use important Blender Addons. For instance, Octane can’t access or make use of motion vectors generated by Flip Fluids, and many of the Octane properties can not be set for Flip Fluid generated simulations.
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby FrankPooleFloating » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:38 pm

FrankPooleFloating Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:38 pm
I have PM'd and asked the dude that has conducted these tests to join in here if he can...

And I'll keep an eye out for Octane supporting PrBSDF! If you pull that off, we are back in business Lino! Take care bro!

Edit: Hey, thanks for backing me up some there pegot! I thought maybe I was the only dude who cared about this crap, at all. This thread gets so many views, but no one seems to want to discuss this Octane vs PrBSDF materials munky-bizness... So cool that someone else finally gives a shit. ;)

Edit part deux: Folks, I know I keep saying PrBSDF (my abbreviation of Principled BSDF) this and PrBSDF that, but I guess I should have been saying Blender Materials in general. Excuse me guys, I have been banging out a bunch of animations (since I really got going with Blender 2.8 months ago) that have not required anything but PrBSDF, and I haven't needed to touch the other mats at all. I imagine the volume stuff, and specular, etc, would all need to natively work in Octane. But ninety-some percent of the time, PrBSDF is what my stuff uses and will be ultimately hit with...
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Re: Fork Blender

Postby linograndiotoy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:03 pm

linograndiotoy Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:03 pm
pegot wrote:FrankPooleFloating is also correct on the level of frustration in not always being able to fully use important Blender Addons. For instance, Octane can’t access or make use of motion vectors generated by Flip Fluids, and many of the Octane properties can not be set for Flip Fluid generated simulations.


Octane can totally take advantage of the Generate Motion Blur Vectors option in FLIP Fluids. Motion blur works perfectly in that case. Or at least it was. I'll check again.
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