Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby JM_Koester » Mon May 06, 2019 9:46 am

JM_Koester Mon May 06, 2019 9:46 am
Hi Paul,

thanks for the feedback.
I'm a bit confused regarding the versions, so far I tested using the octane 4 demo, your link points to version 2018, which is actually the latest? What is the difference?

What kind of issues are you facing with the material conversion? Is it not possible to implement it similar to what I suggested?
The legacy materials convert quite okay, the new PBR materials as they are transferred right now are completely useless.
This topic is very important for us, cause we need a pipeline in the end where the PBR materials are converted. I guess it becomes important for all users, once Autodesk decides to not support legacy materials anymore.
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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby face_off » Mon May 06, 2019 11:17 pm

face_off Mon May 06, 2019 11:17 pm
My apologies Jan - this thread is in the Demo forum rather than the Revit support forum, so I got my wires crossed!

What kind of issues are you facing with the material conversion? Is it not possible to implement it similar to what I suggested?
I will look at this again this week. It should be possible to implement your suggestion.

I'm a bit confused regarding the versions, so far I tested using the octane 4 demo, your link points to version 2018, which is actually the latest? What is the difference?
The 2018 demo version is built with Octane 2018.1. There is no longer a demo version for Octane 4 (since it has effectively been superceded by Octane 2018).

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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby JM_Koester » Tue May 07, 2019 7:32 am

JM_Koester Tue May 07, 2019 7:32 am
face_off wrote:My apologies Jan - this thread is in the Demo forum rather than the Revit support forum, so I got my wires crossed!
I will look at this again this week. It should be possible to implement your suggestion.

I didn't get my license yet, therefore I have to post here.
Thanks for looking into it.

The 2018 demo version is built with Octane 2018.1. There is no longer a demo version for Octane 4 (since it has effectively been superceded by Octane 2018).

Okay, thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby face_off » Sat May 25, 2019 8:17 am

face_off Sat May 25, 2019 8:17 am
I tried to markup how the conversion should be done.
Green marks converted values, red are fixed values which should be set.

1. Metal
- Hightlight shape "Long Falloff" translates to BSDF model GGX, short stands for Beckmann.
- All (used in this examples) textures need gamma setting of 1 except albedo, though I'm not 100% sure for transmission.
- Proper texture scaling for all textures should be converted.
- Inside Relief Pattern (Bump) settings is a switch for either normal or height map, that needs to be evaluated somehow and converted accordingly.
- Smooth should be default imo
Hi Jan. I have been able to find some time to look into this, but do not understand your screenshots. I cannot see any "Parameter" section in any of the materials in Revit 2020. Under the Physical tab I see Information, Behavior, Basic Thermal, Mechanical and Strength. These do not translate to any Octane material nodes. Under the Appearance I see Information, Generic, Reflectivity, etc. I think I would need a copy of the .RVT file that you used for the screenshots above in order to be able to progress this feature request.

Thanks

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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby JM_Koester » Mon May 27, 2019 7:20 am

JM_Koester Mon May 27, 2019 7:20 am
face_off wrote:Hi Jan. I have been able to find some time to look into this, but do not understand your screenshots. I cannot see any "Parameter" section in any of the materials in Revit 2020. Under the Physical tab I see Information, Behavior, Basic Thermal, Mechanical and Strength. These do not translate to any Octane material nodes. Under the Appearance I see Information, Generic, Reflectivity, etc. I think I would need a copy of the .RVT file that you used for the screenshots above in order to be able to progress this feature request.

Thanks

Paul

Hi Paul,
thanks for looking into it. I'm using Revit 2019, but there shouldn't be any major difference to 2020, regarding material appearance.
I don't have any access to a file sharing system, but I could send you a file by email if you can give me the address.
The Revit material system can be quite confusing, materials are made up of assets, imo we can ignore all except "appearance" wich basically defines the shader.
Appearances marked with a yellow exclamation mark are legacy materials, at least in 2019 new materials are still created with a legacy appearance.
You can find new shaders in the appearance library.
2019-05-27_091809.jpg

2019-05-27_091820.jpg
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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby face_off » Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am

face_off Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am
Hi Jan

I have had a further look at this. Firstly, the Revit API has no information on any of this. Even googling gives no help. I can tell you that "Aluminium - Bead Blasted" has a material schema type of "PrismMetalSchema" - and if you google that schema name, or search for it in the Revit 2020 API documentation, or search for the schema definition in the C# API, there is no trace of it. So there is a lot of reverse engineering required here. The traditional Revit schemas (GenericSchema, HardwoodSchema, ConcreteSchema, etc) at least have a definition in the API. So it is unclear if there are other schema's that are undocumented that I have not yet found.

I was able to reverse engineer through experimentation that the PrismMetalSchema and PrismOpaqueSchema schemas are the usual types for a material with a Parameters section in their appearance.

It would be possible to convert PrismMetalSchema and PrismOpaqueSchema materials to Octane Universal materials and leave the other schema materials converting to Octane Diffuse, Glossy and Specular materials as per the current rules.

However there would be some testing needed to get this right, and it may take a few iterations to get the conversion working as you need.

I am sure you will understand that this level of work is something I can only take on for licenses customers.

So in summary, if you have a plugin license (Enterprise or Studio), I can send you a test release, and tweak the rules as per your feedback.

Thanks

Paul
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Re: Revit 2019 Octane 4 - Problem and questions

Postby JM_Koester » Tue May 28, 2019 8:21 am

JM_Koester Tue May 28, 2019 8:21 am
Hi Paul,

I completely understand, we are in the process of purchasing a license, I hope to receive it soon and will let you know immediately.
I'm sure others will benefit from that feature as well, latest when Autodesk decides to not support legacy materials anymore ;) Understand if you have to put this on hold to till I got the license.

In the API docs you can find classes like AdvancedMetal which looks like being connected to PrismMetal Schema, no clue how that works...
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