OTOY Forums

okichkoatl wrote:

mlody47 wrote: Reply with quote Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:59 pm
Re: New Year's open themed still image competition (OPEN)
ok so I am again bit confussed.... ...about those backgrounds.

so You are telling that it should be like this?

1. Render with Octane ( with alpha channel enabled )
2. Open photoshop & load my render
3. Paint my background ( or put there any image )
4. Save it as image
5. Put a plane mesh in the background in my 3d scene
6. Texture it with my background
7. Export to Octane and render without alpha channel

This is pure madness. It dont make sense, to make 5,6,7 point of this list

HI, you can just make a 360o Degrees image and load it in octane as i did on all of my renders, like the 2 ketzalkoatls, is just the model of the ketzas, the images behind is a 360o images so i can turn arround any direction and render the best frame i want.

Here is the image

but You lost all the data from HDRI becouse You loaded LDRI ... not good technique ( for me ) I dont have a whole week to make my own HDRI's

Rules, like laws, are sometimes weird, but they are made to be followed, not discussed.

About the fact that Octane now can render with transparent background, it has nothing to do with the rules :

You have two hands, but when you play soccer the coach doesn't cut your hands before the match ! You are just not allowed by the rules to use them during the play. There is no need to ask " Coach, and what if I'd use only 3 fingers of the left hand ? "

ROUBAL wrote:You have two hands, but when you play soccer the coach doesn't cut your hands before the match !

Ok I agree

but half of works are disqualified

with mine too

ROUBAL wrote:I don't see why so many people find the rules or the method complicated .

The method itself is not complicated (albeit it's more complicated than it could be with composition). The problem arises if you want to change your background - you must re-render. My opinion is also that an embedded background image doesn't add anything to Octane, and a composited background doesn't take anything from it. Rendering a scenery image on a plane is not a feature that makes Octane stand out

I'm fine with the rules and changing them would not be appropriate, I'm just saying for the sake of the argument.

mlody47 wrote:

marco diulgheroff wrote:

ROUBAL wrote:I don't see why so many people find the rules or the method complicated !

I agree

They are not complicated, the are just dumb. ( no offense - just my point of view )

I know this competition has been longer and more unpredictable than everybody expected, but we are working with a beta release and it's continously in a "work in progress" state. We started this competition with Octane 23.5 and no alpha channel opportunity, now we get 24.2 with alpha channel opportunity but we are not allowed to use it. Anyway, with both the releases, and since the competition started, as a rule, we are not allowed to make any post pro and with any sw.

trinity wrote:Postproduction is allowed only:

. To fix lighting issues and fireflies.
. To add glare and bloom.
. To add chromatic aberration.
. For noise reduction if needed.


You cannot add any other image part in post-production

Note: that if you use excessive noise-reduction and your submission ends up looking blotchy as a result,
this will be taken into account during examination by the jury, and you're image may not be chosen as the winning image.

and

enricocerica wrote:You cannot composite in a background image, this was one of the rules indeed and we cannot change them during the competition, as Octane now provides a way to render with alpha channel, we will see for the next compet.

You can mix two raw images rendered with Octane if it has a sense, I mean don't render a background (see previous answer) you'll then composite with your scene ;o). For example if you have a big tree and indeed you don't have enough memory to render it with your other scene objects, I can accept you'll mix it later on after after rendering it separately.

Anyway you're free to load an hdri or ldri image as texture environment and if, as you say

mlody47 wrote:but You lost all the data from HDRI becouse You loaded LDRI ... not good technique ( for me ) I dont have a whole week to make my own HDRI's

so, I think this is connected to the strategy you planned to apply, 'couse the rules were the same with Octane 23.5. But maybe you not agree with the rules and this is an other question (no offense - just my point of view)

no offense taken I just couldnt believe, that You must render whole scene with your backround plate, which is already "ready" before rendering .

I agree with the rules.

mlody47 wrote:no offense taken I just couldnt believe, that You must render whole scene with your backround plate, which is already "ready" before rendering .

I agree with the rules.

Excuse me, but I just want to understand (and to learn something new), knowing your opinion. I'm not a newbie, but I'm not a so professional user as you are (I've surfed your very impressive site and I read your references so I know this is your job), but (just to explain simply), when you use the alpha channel with post pro intentions then you can put every image on your background, ok, but this doesn't affect the reflections and illumination of your scene, so that the final image really results "plate" (unless you work with ps), while if you put an image as texture environment (obviously hdri is better due the fact it's a 32 bit image and so it's deeper, but also lhri does) it affects light and reflections too! Furthermore if the image you put represent just an ambient mood or atmospheric condition (a sky with clouds for example) the result should be better than if you put an arch image (unless you use an hdri one). Is this wrong for you?

In my alien entry I used Mike Sidonio's awesome stars picture as enviroment , but before choosing which one would suit better the scene I took a shoot with alpha background and compared several backgrounds to see which I like most, you can see in the WIP gallery that first test scene with Mike's picture. At first when I put it as env.texture I thought It would look more or less like the composed one using the alpha background, but I was totally shocked to see how much it added to the scene, not only in reflections but in general mood and ambient light. What I mean is that with other render engines I've worked before using a jpg was mostly to get some reflection enviroment and usually didn't add much to the light mood, but here even thou it wasn't HDRI it did add up and gave a warmer feeling to the scene that without it. Dunno, it might just be me (or my hugemongus ignorance) but I was happily surprised 'cause I thought that without an HDRI, texture enviroment was useless for my general purposes. Just for that, and the extra tricks I learned to do my two scenes (the third is in the oven althou I might not make the deadline) the whole contest was worth it.... well, also I want to get one of those jackets, but heck, it a pretty cold winter here

@marco diulgheroff
when you use the alpha channel with post pro intentions then you can put every image on your background, ok

ok

but this doesn't affect the reflections and illumination of your scene

It dont have to. It depends what was Your intentions.

while if you put an image as texture environment (obviously hdri is better due the fact it's a 32 bit image and so it's deeper, but also lhri does) it affects light and reflections too!

For instance : I already lit the scene with HDRI and im happy with the light - but the background doesnt match , its low quality, wrong angle , etc. I dont want to change the lighning conditions just to be happy with the background... ...Same goes for emmiters.

Furthermore if the image you put represent just an ambient mood or atmospheric condition (a sky with clouds for example) the result should be better than if you put an arch image (unless you use an hdri one). Is this wrong for you?

I dont understand that one. sorry

Avoid LDRI at all cost.

@ mlody47

I've understood that I'm not so hard to please, probably 'cause I'm not a prof and I've not faced so particulary conditions.

"Furthermore if the image you put represent just an ambient mood or atmospheric condition (a sky with clouds for example) the result should be better than if you put an arch image (unless you use an hdri one)" I meant architectural or interior, but forget this, I've gone too far in my mind, it didn't match the question, sorry.

Thanks for explanations!