Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MB » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:20 pm

MB Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:20 pm
I have no experience of the above unity octane intergration, how ever two of us at our firm have written an octane to unity exporter so we can quickly get octane scenes, geometry, materials and lights to VR devices supported by unity.

Getting the geometry into unity at the wrong size was devistating on unity lightmapping times, as was getting overly high HDR values on emissive unity materials.

For what it's worth, if this is happening I can see you would have a serious slow down on the unity side.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby Goldorak » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:21 am

Goldorak Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:21 am
MB wrote:I have no experience of the above unity octane intergration, how ever two of us at our firm have written an octane to unity exporter so we can quickly get octane scenes, geometry, materials and lights to VR devices supported by unity.

Getting the geometry into unity at the wrong size was devistating on unity lightmapping times, as was getting overly high HDR values on emissive unity materials.

For what it's worth, if this is happening I can see you would have a serious slow down on the unity side.


We are cleaning up ORBX importing to Unity (with Octane 3.08 update for Unity after the break) so this may make your life much much easier.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby adamnerva » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:53 am

adamnerva Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:53 am
I see that there is a tweaked docking bay scene up on the asset store. The render res has been bumped down to 1080p and it looks like there may be some material tweaks as well. I tweaked the scene as well and got it down to 30min with path tracing kernel at 1080p and exported it out as a unity package... but it seems you can't do that, or in my case, my PBR render target got jacked up and had to be replaced when importing into a fresh project that already had the unity plugin directory.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MikeGardiner » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:41 am

MikeGardiner Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:41 am
Hi Goldorak, sorry for the late reply. I have a subscription to OctaneRender Studio, however the tests I am running are on a single GPU - an Alienware with a GTX1080. I have confirmed that Octane is using the correct GPU.

As evidenced by my tests a few weeks ago, the issue is due to the amount of objects in the scene - is this a known issue?

To answer MB (although they might have been replying to adamnerva) - my test scene is in normal scale, and my tests are using a single material applied to everything so no issue with HDR materials.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MikeGardiner » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am

MikeGardiner Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Bumping so that this topic doesn't drift away.

Further reinforcing these tests, now that Octane will render in Play mode, I can easily see the issue by toggling the gameobjects to be batching static or not.

    Non-static (batches: 63): 5min 15sec
    Static (batches: 5): 3min 45sec
Again, I need to reiterate that 3ds Max does NOT have these issues, regardless of the number of objects in the scene - this seems to be some sort of issue with the Unity implementation of Octane. Is there anyone from Otoy who can chime in on this behaviour?

In Summary: Octane in Unity renders significantly slower when there are multiple Gameobjects in the scene. In my tests, this number is 106, which is worryingly small. The render times are sped up by anything that combines objects / reduces batches, such as:

    Manually combining objects in 3Ds Max
    Setting objects to batching static and rendering in Play Mode
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MikeGardiner » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:54 pm

MikeGardiner Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:54 pm
Bump - can anyone from Otoy please advise. I can only imagine this is something that will impact many people's ability to use Octane in Unity.

I hate to be that person, but I run a studio with 20 licenses of Unity Pro, with our plan to also eventually have 20 licenses of OctaneRender Creator. In the meantime, I have bought 2 licenses of OctaneRender Studio for testing. I'm a paying customer, and I feel that Otoy should address or even acknowledge that this issue currently exists.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MikeGardiner » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:17 am

MikeGardiner Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:17 am
Problem still persists in 1.1.0.1245 - same behaviour exhibited.

Please Otoy, can we have a discussion about this?
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MikeGardiner » Thu May 17, 2018 11:09 pm

MikeGardiner Thu May 17, 2018 11:09 pm
Problem persists in Unity 2018.1. The issue still seems to be that rendering gets slower the more objects are in the scene.

I have the same scene in 3Ds Max and Unity, with the following samples per second (average):

3ds Max: 14.47 million

Unity (separate objects): 8.85 million
Unity (batched in play mode): 12.1 million

Unity (combined into 1 object): 14.4 million
Unity (combined into 2 objects): 12.6 million

Summary

The render speed of 3Ds Max and Unity is the same when the Unity object is manually combined into a single mesh.

As soon as there are more than one mesh though, the samples per second drops and the render time increases. Even combining into 2 objects sees a significant drop in samples per second.

By keeping everything separate, the render time in Unity is nearly double that of 3Ds Max.

Note to Otoy

I've had this thread going for quite a few months and I haven't seen one response from Otoy. This is the official forums, not a community driven site. This is something that needs to be at least acknowledged - your paying customers deserve a little better than the current engagement that you're displaying.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby Xhed » Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 am

Xhed Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 am
My apologies for having missed this thread till now.

Overhead in Unity is significantly larger than in Max. Unity scenes are also constructed differently from Max. We've been working with Unity on finding a solution to resolve the difference, but it's a big undertaking, as changes will have to be made to the Unity engine.

As you tested, the advice is to combine your objects into fewer meshes.
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Re: Unity vs 3Ds Max - Render times and noise

Postby MikeGardiner » Thu May 24, 2018 6:25 am

MikeGardiner Thu May 24, 2018 6:25 am
Hi Xhed, although not the answer I was hoping for, thank you for at least acknowledging the problem. I guess there's nothing to be done but wait to see what further developments may bring.
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