When will the service be available?

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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby renderingz » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:55 am

renderingz Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:55 am
Yeah, I think so? From what I gather $9.99 is the 'Test drive' base subscription cost which includes 1000 render minutes at 40 octane bench, so on my system (400 octane bench) that equates to having a monthly usage of 100 minutes for 10 dollars.

In the live stream Jules Urbach said something like it costs 10 bucks an hour for an 800 octane bench system. Would love to be wrong though, considering how often the team having been saying it's gonna be cheaper than amazon aws and at the moment it's 10x more expensive. :D :D
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby Goldorak » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:49 am

Goldorak Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:49 am
renderingz wrote:Yeah, I think so? From what I gather $9.99 is the 'Test drive' base subscription cost which includes 1000 render minutes at 40 octane bench, so on my system (400 octane bench) that equates to having a monthly usage of 100 minutes for 10 dollars.

In the live stream Jules Urbach said something like it costs 10 bucks an hour for an 800 octane bench system. Would love to be wrong though, considering how often the team having been saying it's gonna be cheaper than amazon aws and at the moment it's 10x more expensive. :D :D



AWS : 40 OctaneBench / hour @ 65 cents * 20 (800 OB/hr) = $13.00

After running ORC and looking at data for 20 months, the real world costs at minimum add about 12% to that for I/O and basic storage. Go above 60 minutes on your node for even a minute and you pay for a full hour. ORC is per minute. You can send 100 frames to 100 GPUs and render at once for a few minutes before next user does the same. This is a really important difference that makes ORC scale so efficiently.

So...start to think about how this can help animation workflows :)

ORC will get cheaper as we grow the service with more users - economies of scale are in our favor.

We feel today it is a good value at this price point. It is cheaper than EC2, and in the coming months will become even more so.

We absolutely want your guys feedback - so please feel fre to ask questions and comment.
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby renderingz » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:35 am

renderingz Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:35 am
I'm sure cost will come down over time... because like you say infrastructure is on your side.

But just for the record... current spot instance price of a g2.2 x large instance is $0.1462 per Hour @ 40 octane bench. So for $2.924 you get 800 octane bench an hour :)
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby Goldorak » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:57 am

Goldorak Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:57 am
renderingz wrote:I'm sure cost will come down over time... because like you say infrastructure is on your side.

But just for the record... current spot instance price of a g2.2 x large instance is $0.1462 per Hour @ 40 octane bench. So for $2.924 you get 800 octane bench an hour :)


Well no because you have no guarantee that price will last an hour or that you can get 20/200/2000 of them. SI are not a dependable resource you can count on to finish even one frame, much less 1000s.

Also from our experience w/ ORC beta, spot instances are scarce and evaporate quickly in regions where ORC is running at full capacity - like the RTM contests last year :)

But it's a good metric for us to aim for as we work on growth and cost savings.
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby Chriz » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:05 am

Chriz Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:05 am
Hi there!

I am asking myself if i am right with my calculations on VRscenes as in the RTM-Contest:

I had several entries. I have had 40h-interior-VR-renders on my at that time 170 Octance Bench machine. The 800 OB for one hour is equal to 4,7 hours on my system than. My 40-hour-VR-cubemap-render will take 40 hours/4,7 -> 8,5 hours

8,5 times the 10$ per hour for that compute power makes 85$ for one Cubemap? Where am i wrong?

As I understood, of couse it can render much faster than the 8,5 hours, but the price will stay the same.

I am very exited to try your ORC service. But that would be a lot of money for one Cubemap.

Imagine the screenresolution on Gear VR will increase next year to the double amount of pixels, that will take a lot longer to render bigger cubemaps for.... :roll:

Have a nice day!

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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby Refracty » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:31 am

Refracty Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:31 am
Is the data that is send to the Cloud fully encripted so that the clients are less concerned in terms of NDA breaches?
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby renderingz » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:14 am

renderingz Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:14 am
Goldorak wrote:
renderingz wrote:I'm sure cost will come down over time... because like you say infrastructure is on your side.

But just for the record... current spot instance price of a g2.2 x large instance is $0.1462 per Hour @ 40 octane bench. So for $2.924 you get 800 octane bench an hour :)


Well no because you have no guarantee that price will last an hour or that you can get 20/200/2000 of them. SI are not a dependable resource you can count on to finish even one frame, much less 1000s.

Also from our experience w/ ORC beta, spot instances are scarce and evaporate quickly in regions where ORC is running at full capacity - like the RTM contests last year :)

But it's a good metric for us to aim for as we work on growth and cost savings.


Fair point. I imagine your infrastructure will expand pretty fast.

Few questions out of curiousity;

How many GPUs will the service launch with, and what are they? I can imagine ORC is gonna get absolutely hammered as soon as it's launched.

How quickly can you roll out additional capacity, is there a plan for that already in place?

Will we see cost savings relative to new advances in GPU versions, on a timescale close to their release? I imagine price of MS/S per watt decreases drastically with each new generation of hardware. How relevant is this to the cost of ORC?
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby esteban_diacono » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:54 am

esteban_diacono Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:54 am
Well, that's a pretty good presentation. Impressive roadmap ahead.
BUT, for my taste, it's all too technical for me to understand how it's going to work. The words "buckets", "bench", doesn't give me an idea if ORC is going to let me rest assured I will hit my deadlines and not destroy my budgets.
Can you please explain how it will work, like if i was a 5 year old? Let's say that I have a 1000 frames project that in my 250 octane bench system takes around 15 minutes each. Question is: How does the ORC works in this case? Is it like a linear, local render, when everything gets rendered in order, or does it escalate like a more traditional render farm, where multiple frames can be rendered at once? And still considering the numbers from my example, how does translate in terms of cost given today's announcements?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby renderingz » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:59 am

renderingz Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:59 am
esteban_diacono wrote:Well, that's a pretty good presentation. Impressive roadmap ahead.
BUT, for my taste, it's all too technical for me to understand how it's going to work. The words "buckets", "bench", doesn't give me an idea if ORC is going to let me rest assured I will hit my deadlines and not destroy my budgets.
Can you please explain how it will work, like if i was a 5 year old? Let's say that I have a 1000 frames project that in my 250 octane bench system takes around 15 minutes each. Question is: How does the ORC works in this case? Is it like a linear, local render, when everything gets rendered in order, or does it escalate like a more traditional render farm, where multiple frames can be rendered at once? And still considering the numbers from my example, how does translate in terms of cost given today's announcements?

Thanks in advance!


For 10$ an hour at launch you will render frames on ORC at about 4-5 minutes (As per the presentation it costs 10$ per hour for an 800 octane bench bucket across 20 GPUS). So 1000 frames, lets say 4500 minutes/60 x $10 is gonna cost you $750, and at roughly about two three days render time, again on $10 an hour. I guess you could book two 800 octane bench buckets for $20 an hour and get it done half the time...

It won't be the cheapest option currently available on launch, but it will be way more convenient than using renderfarms or AMIs where you need additional licenses for octane and are much more of an administrative hassle. Looks like over time the cost will come down drastically.
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Re: When will the service be available?

Postby prehabitat » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:30 am

prehabitat Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:30 am
renderingz wrote:
esteban_diacono wrote:Well, that's a pretty good presentation..... <Question re: 15min frames X 1000 @250 Octanebench>....


<part of the answer>....cost you $750, and at roughly about two three days render time, again on $10 an hour. I guess you could book two 800 octane bench buckets for $20 an hour and get it done half the time...


With all due respect I think your calculations/conclusions are totally missing the (main) point (or strength) or ORC:

Any render job (single still or complete set of frames) which takes over an hour you would pay the higher rate for MORE buckets...

The example above is 78.125 hours by my calculations (Renderingz, you rounded this to 75 hours)
As has been noted; animations is the real strength of ORC because you easily get over the 1 hour 'job' size.
In this example you would actually pay for 79 buckets; at a cost of $790/hour, and finishing the job in ONE HOUR...

You would never pay $790 for 79 hours (x1 bucket) and sit around waiting...


To fine tune the example;
If you had 400 frames which only take 3 minutes on a OB 250 system;
375min on Single ORC bucket (or 6.25 bucket hours)

So you buy 7 buckets for an hour; finish the job in 53.5 minutes...
Your "waste" is:
6.25Bhr req / 7.0Bhr booked = 0.89 usage * 60 (minutes bought) = 53.5mins.. ie 6.5mins your buckets of GPU's sit there idle...(10%)

FYI: waste for the original 78.125hr example is:
78.125/79=98.89% or 1.11%


I could spreadsheet this, because there would be a sweet spot for waste on every job... I assume the Otoy guys have some pre-job estimator that gives the artist instant feedback/graph so thy can work out the Time/waste ratio they are comfortable with?

If I'm correct; perhaps ORC trade mark should be: "ORC - finish any job in 1 hour"
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